Do abusive men realise they are abusive?

[PurpleThursdays]

Just pondering some thoughts really. I've had at least 3 exes who could be described as abusive in many ways. I split from my last ex over 2 years ago and thought about what attracts me to them in the first place etc and recognise I tend to minimise and try to pacify bad behaviour from them in the beginning of the relationship. Anyway, that's my issue I'm working on. Won't be doing that anymore.

On a more general note though, domestic abuse is more common than I would have thought. I know both sexes can be abusive but what is it specifically about men that makes them behave in certain ways?

Two of my exes definitely had more traits in common than the first one (first one was when I was 18, we were both young and inexperienced and he was massively insecure and had self-esteem issues which manifested as being over-possessive of me). But the latter two exes were both quick to show aggression at anything they didnt like - no politely disagreeing, but actively shouting. Both gave silent treatment for days. Both use gaslighting tactics. Both dont care how hurt they make you as long as they are in control and 'winning', even though they both lost the relationship in the end. They didn't exactly hide their shitty behaviour in the beginning either, I was just naive in my younger years.

TLDR: do men like this not realise they are being abusive? What's the thinking behind it all?

Disclaimer: not implying all men are like this. Not trying to man-bash.

Really interested to hear from both sexes on this topic.

I don’t think my ex believed he was no.

If a man is physically violent, surely he must realise he has a problem though?

Ime some men only realise the way they've behaved is abuse when served with the restraining order. I've been told that in some cases this alone can de-escalatw behaviour

I think when a man behaves in such a way that makes you react, it gives him the power to then take the next step so yes I do think they know.

The silent treatment is a prime example of this.

@PurpleThursdays

If a man is physically violent, surely he must realise he has a problem though?

My ex was but he thought it was my fault as I “made him do it”

Do abusers want to be in relationships then? Cos surely they would recognise a consequence would the relationship being over? So why not just break up with the person? I realise I'm trying to rationalise irrational behaviour here.

do men like this not realise they are being abusive? What's the thinking behind it all?

Of course they know. The thinking? It's all about power and control and every single one of them who is subjecting their partner to domestic abuse isn't doing it to their friends and colleagues. Yes, they know alright.

That's what I can't grasp. If someone is "making" you do something you don't like (such a BS excuse!) why not just leave before you are "made" to behave in shitty ways?

I hope I'm making sense, but to me the blame lies solely at the abusers door. So why would they not leave before they escalate a situation.

With physical abuse, yes of course they know.

With emotional or financial abuse, I don't think they all know. I think a lot of that comes from them having a dysfunctional understanding of how to interact with people/deal with situations. I think they genuinely don't know any better.

@NuffSaidSam

With physical abuse, yes of course they know.

With emotional or financial abuse, I don't think they all know. I think a lot of that comes from them having a dysfunctional understanding of how to interact with people/deal with situations. I think they genuinely don't know any better.

I don't know what's more depressing. That they genuinely don't know or that they do and just don't care.

I genuinely believe it's the messages that we get in early childhood that set us up for adult behaviour.

I remember my MIL telling me a story of exH at 5 sitting down in the street refusing to move unless she carried him. His father and uncles and aunts tried to cajole him. He literally sat and screamed until MIL picked him up. I remember the day it dawned on me that that was his go to behaviour to get what he wanted. He just would dig his heels in, refuse to budge, be emotionally manipulative and talk over me until I gave in. I watched him repeat this behaviour with his parents and our grown up DD.

Meanwhile I spent my 5th year sitting on the stairs waiting for my father to pick me up, perhaps he was late, a few hours late or he's not turn up at all. When he did, he wasn't emotionally present. My mother let me sit and wait and to prioritise that piece of crap sperm donator over my needs.

My dating life has been a disaster... therapy is fucking amazing.

Men get what they want most of the time, so why would they see their behaviour as wrong. So they don't choose therapy. Instead they switch the narrative to make them the victim when you've had enough and leave. Yes my poor exH was 'devastated' when his wife left after 5 months of marriage counselling - because he was trying so hard. (Yes he just told me he point over and over in front of someone we were paying).

@PurpleThursdays

Do abusers want to be in relationships then? Cos surely they would recognise a consequence would the relationship being over? So why not just break up with the person? I realise I'm trying to rationalise irrational behaviour here.

My ex liked to say that I was crazy or hormonal for getting cross or upset. So he was able to convince himself that his anger was a justifiable reaction to my “craziness” and that if only I would stop having these pesky emotions and needs that he wouldn’t have to get so cross convincing me I was unstable.

The last straw was when I was upset that he wasn’t helping me prepare for Xmas with our families, while he sat down and watched TV. Yes I should have articulated that I needed more help but I was exhausted and when he challenged me and told me I was being unreasonable I called him a lazy twat. I took some time out to calm down and when I came back he was rude to me again.

He then took the piss out of me being hormonal (I was adjusting my new HRT dosage so even if that were the case, it was a shitty thing to say) and then proceeded to kick over the fan in my kitchen.

I’m sure in his mind what I said was just as bad as him mocking my female biology every time we argued and being physically aggressive, so there’s no way he would consider himself abusive.

He was even arrested previously for similar behaviour but he still felt very hard done by and managed to convince me that again I’d overreacted, despite me being terrified and cowering behind the table calling 999.

So I do think the cognitive dissonance required to be an abuser but still consider yourself a decent person is 100% possible.

You could be right craving. But also, on the flip side, I often think what grown adult doesn't grasp the concept of right/wrong and using their actions for good rather than anger and hatred. My childhood was good, but my parents are in some ways a great example and in others not so much, hence I picked emotionally unavailable men (like my dad is). But I'm a grown woman now, kissed a few frogs and even I can see where I went wrong in choosing these dickheads. So why can't abusers pick apart their behaviour and learn from it?

And his parting shot was that all women are crazy so if he wants to be in a heterosexual relationship he’ll have to accept some crazy from someone else. And then wished me good luck finding someone else. I tried to point out that I don’t need luck to meet a man who isn’t a violent misogynist, but I’m sure he thinks he’s just perfect!

I also think - sorry to keep posting, this is like therapy! - that he compares his behaviour to his exes new boyfriends who have punched her, broken her arm, cheated etc and thinks that by comparison he’s a saint. On the other hand he expects me to be more “resilient” so that I don’t get wobbled by aggressive behaviour etc, despite having been almost killed by a previous BF. I should just trust that when he is throwing or kicking things that it definitely won’t escalate like those ‘proper’ abusers do to violence against me. It’s like his relationship with her was grade 8 toxic so I should be happy with grade 4 toxic.

My ex liked to say that I was crazy or hormonal for getting cross or upset. So he was able to convince himself that his anger was a justifiable reaction to my “craziness” and that if only I would stop having these pesky emotions and needs that he wouldn’t have to get so cross convincing me I was unstable.*

My ex tries this with me still (have children together so need to be in contact). Makes things up about my voice "getting high-pitched" if I show any emotion whatsoever. Even if I calmly state something (I've learned to do this over the years instead of getting upset) ex still uses "getting high-pitched" as an excuse as to why he behaves like he does with me. I'm as monotone as can be with him on purpose. And he still says it.

It's all the same script. I've had "hormonal" chucked at me so many times its unreal.

@RoyKentsChestHair

And his parting shot was that all women are crazy so if he wants to be in a heterosexual relationship he’ll have to accept some crazy from someone else. And then wished me good luck finding someone else. I tried to point out that I don’t need luck to meet a man who isn’t a violent misogynist, but I’m sure he thinks he’s just perfect!

I'm beginning to think we dated the same man. Either that, or there is a script out there they have read and followed.

No. They think they are justified, that you 'drive them to it'. They think you are deliberately 'winding them up' when in reality you are dancing on eggshells trying not to provoke them.

bold fail.

@ArblemarzipanTFruitcake

No. They think they are justified, that you 'drive them to it'. They think you are deliberately 'winding them up' when in reality you are dancing on eggshells trying not to provoke them.

But are they really incapable of internal reflection? That's the burning question.

But are they really incapable of internal reflection? That's the burning question.

Yes, but their internal reflection is distorted, as if they're in a house of mirrors at the funfair. Their internal reflection presents them back to themselves as the victim, the long-suffering husband of a useless wife.

My (soon to be ex) husband won't believe he's abusive. He sometimes accepts he has a drinking problem and anger issues but never accepts that he's actually abusive. Either it was the drink made him smash the glass / scream at me / call me a fat slag etc and he doesnt remember, or when hes in a particularly bad way he says its my fault for constantly nagging at him about his drinking

@ShinyGreenElephant

My (soon to be ex) husband won't believe he's abusive. He sometimes accepts he has a drinking problem and anger issues but never accepts that he's actually abusive. Either it was the drink made him smash the glass / scream at me / call me a fat slag etc and he doesnt remember, or when hes in a particularly bad way he says its my fault for constantly nagging at him about his drinking

Yes, this is my experience too.

I do believe abusers want to be in relationships which is why nobody should ever 'jump into bed' too soon before they get to know what each other is really like and this goes for both sexes

I don't know what the solution is then. I feel like early intervention in the developing years would prevent a lot of future abusers. How though, I'm not sure.