Do abusive men realise they are abusive?

[PurpleThursdays]

Just pondering some thoughts really. I've had at least 3 exes who could be described as abusive in many ways. I split from my last ex over 2 years ago and thought about what attracts me to them in the first place etc and recognise I tend to minimise and try to pacify bad behaviour from them in the beginning of the relationship. Anyway, that's my issue I'm working on. Won't be doing that anymore.

On a more general note though, domestic abuse is more common than I would have thought. I know both sexes can be abusive but what is it specifically about men that makes them behave in certain ways?

Two of my exes definitely had more traits in common than the first one (first one was when I was 18, we were both young and inexperienced and he was massively insecure and had self-esteem issues which manifested as being over-possessive of me). But the latter two exes were both quick to show aggression at anything they didnt like - no politely disagreeing, but actively shouting. Both gave silent treatment for days. Both use gaslighting tactics. Both dont care how hurt they make you as long as they are in control and 'winning', even though they both lost the relationship in the end. They didn't exactly hide their shitty behaviour in the beginning either, I was just naive in my younger years.

TLDR: do men like this not realise they are being abusive? What's the thinking behind it all?

Disclaimer: not implying all men are like this. Not trying to man-bash.

Really interested to hear from both sexes on this topic.

I think they know, but manage to convince themselves it's not their fault because and believe that makes it ok as they 'can't help it'. It's a total lack of personal responsibility, self reflection and the unwillingness to do any work to improve their emotional intelligence. And why would they, when it's easier to bully and steam roller their way to what they want? I think they do want relationships (or maybe just a handy victim) but they don't want to put any effort into building or maintaining them so often become more abusive when they don't just magically happen. They want their idea of a relationship, not the reality of one.

If karma was real I’d be the one with the good fortune but instead I have no parents, no money, no partner and a broken heart. While he has it all

Exh and exp the alky knew what they were doing definitely. Recent exp I'm not sure as he is much more passive aggressive and subtly unpleasant.

No. Same for stalking and harassment. They all think they are entitled to do it. When confronted, rejected or exposed, they will still justify their behaviour, even if hollow apologies are made.

I don't think l realised myself what abusive behaviour looked like u til l joined MN but now l can sniff it out a mile away
My ex got really cross with me for saying l was going out ...he had been in the pub all day and wanted to head home whereas l had only just got in from work and wanted a night out.
I told him in no uncertain terms he wasn't the boss of me and if he didn't like it he might as well fuck off there and then. He was all apologetic but l thought at the time if l don't stamp this out now it will get worse (we hadn't been together that long). And in fairness to him, he never did it again but if you had said that was abusive l probably wouldn't have realised it but l knew it felt wrong.
So no sometimes l don't think they do realise them trying to control and manipulate us is a form of abuse.
We need to tell them!

@IcicleIcicle

I think they know, but manage to convince themselves it's not their fault because and believe that makes it ok as they 'can't help it'. It's a total lack of personal responsibility, self reflection and the unwillingness to do any work to improve their emotional intelligence. And why would they, when it's easier to bully and steam roller their way to what they want? I think they do want relationships (or maybe just a handy victim) but they don't want to put any effort into building or maintaining them so often become more abusive when they don't just magically happen. They want their idea of a relationship, not the reality of one.

This is 100% mu experience of abusive people. Nailed it.

Sorry to hear that @RoyKentsChestHair

I don’t think it’s as straightforward as a perpetrator “knowing they’re abusive”. My ex was/is a violent, controlling, manipulative rapist. He never took responsibility for his actions and behaviour, whether it was abusing me, his ex girlfriend before me or his drug dependency and spending issues. It was always someone else’s fault. Always. Usually mine after we met, often his ex-girlfriend too.

He’s an adult, he knows that hitting and name calling are wrong. But he’s not his fault because someone else “made him do it”. I think he squares the stealing, rapes, stalking etc with his conscience (assuming he has one) by telling himself he was entitled to it all.

If they portray a different picture of themselves to friends and family and show condemnation to abusers instead of understanding and solidarity, they know their actions are wrong and that they are abusive

That said though, a lot of men don't realise the silent treatment is abuse, having seen their own fathers and grandfathers do it to punish the women and children in their lives for something or other. My husband was horrified when I told him if he ever gave me the cold shoulder again, he'd find his arse single. This was back when he was my boyfriend and went radio silent on me after we had a bit of a squabble. His Dad basically taught his boys that when you're annoyed with a woman, you blank them until you feel better, regardless. And because their mum had always just taken it and then moved on, he didn't see it as abusive. I won't have it. Won't tolerate it at all. He only did it once, but my ex used to do it constantly, sometimes with absolutely no explanation. He'd just wake up and decide he was going to ignore me like I wasn't even there for the day.

@PurpleThursdays why can't abusers pick apart their own behaviour? In my ex's case it's because he enjoyed it. He told me, I asked him why, if I was sooo bad he didn't just leave. His answer, it's more fun this way.
Add into the fact that they get away with it, my ex went to crown court after a particularly nasty beating (I was pregnant) the punishment, an anger management course.

Just a side note op - men are not controlling controlling because of insecurity. They are controlling because they are controlling.

Such a common mistake we make thinking 'oh maybe they are insecure'. If you ever find yourself saying that about a man's actions, run. Because they are not behaving the way they are behaving because of insecurity, but because they want YOU to feel insecure.

MN has made me realise how common it all is. So many threads every day of men doing shit to women they supposedly love. Don't think I'd ever want to be in a relationship again.