Thoughts on this please

[AllThatGlittersAndAllThatGold]

Nanny quit last week.
Been with us for 10 months. We emigrated to this country last year and she started very soon after. Started off great although the youngest who is 6 misbehaved for a while but but it quickly settled down. Our eldest is age 10.
We decided to change the kids school for a second time as we felt it had a better status. This was 2 months ago. That's when we started getting daily updates over the kids behaviour from the nanny. Things like not listening, gossiping about her, speaking rudely etc. They also started to not want to be left with her some mornings. We would speak to the kids everytime an issue was raised but did not punish them as they always denied it and we were not entirely sure they were misbehaving, just that they may be struggling with the changes.
After yet another incident I decided to speak with her. This is because I never see her in person, it is usually my partner. He said he hasn't seen the kids misbehave with her but that they are not happy to be left with her. With that said the youngest still said love you to her everytime she left of a night and also that they had apologised to the nanny for their behaviour without prompting.
So I spoke with her and told her I wanted to be the kind of mother who believed their children and that they always denied misbehaving. I said they were always happy with us and that there are no problems elsewhere. She asked me what was in it for her to lie or manipulate anything and that she was concerned about it all as everything seemed fine until the new school. She also reminded me of a time when I worked from home and saw them being rude to her.
So later on that evening, I did punish the kids and put together a strategy to help enforce positive behaviour. I texted the nanny to tell her and she told me she would not be coming back. That she felt mistrusted and that my partner and I clearly did not trust or appreciate her. This is not true and I told her we did and that we have always been kind to her. She did not reply. My partner texted and said it was really sad things had ended like this and again, that she was appreciated. She sent a long text saying she felt attacked by me and that there was no coming back from that. She said she hoped the kids would remember all the love she gave them.
Kids are still denying the behaviour but are upset and shocked she has gone. Now we have no childcare to fit awkward hours. Was it so bad that I wanted to believe my children and will always do so before I trust anyone else?

Clearly you want us to lambast your former nanny and not question whether children ever tell fibs.
You don't seem to have listened to any other point of view... It's just responses about why we're all wrong and it's the nanny at fault.

Why on earth would the nanny want to continue working for you? You've seen your children be rude to her, but also tell her that you don't believe her. You've accused her of lying and are then wondering why she's left? If my employer accused me of lying like then I'd be looking for another job as well.

If you're that strict how come you didn't pull your children up on the behaviour that you did witness ? Instead you've left it days , weeks or months to address something you witnessed.

I also love it when parents say their children are angels at school. We don't report every misdemeanor they do. Only the really bad stuff that requires parental intervention.

I worked in classes with my friend's son who was really well behaved usually but there were occasions he was reprimanded for messing around, he asked me if I was going to tell his Mum. I told him only a teacher can do that.

You say you are a strict parent but then tell us your child regularly ignores adults. Clearly they are not being disciplined for that.

You sound like a nightmare. Your children sound like spoiled entitled brats. I pity your next nanny...

So - you're saying that the nanny was over sensitive, and construing tired behaviour as naughtiness?

Sent too soon

You're saying what she considered naughty/rude was excusable?

She was over sensitive and her balance was out?

The kids said they weren't rude and hadn't messed about by the road?

And they didn't want to be alone with her??

It sounds like the relationship between her and them had broken down, for some reason. They are a gang, remember. She was alone. She turned to you for support. You should have discussed this much earlier. Maybe with her and them together? Much less room for lying then.

Nanny: X messed about by the road.

X: .... (can't lie)

You've clearly not supported this nanny and now she's history. See how it goes with the next one (2/3/4/5 ...). Then you'll get a clearer picture of your kids' actual behaviour.

Always stay on the right side of your nanny.

‘Messing around’ ‘gossiping’ ‘being rude’ are all pretty subjective. You children aren’t necessarily lying when they deny it. They might just not have the same perspective as the nanny. Why did you change the school for one with a better status? What does that even mean?
You sound like hard work TBH I think you have created this situation and now you may have to deal with your own childcare issues.

This nanny has gone so you need to move on from this situation. You have put your children through a lot of change. Perhaps you could prioritise them and their next nanny over your long hours by taking the time to invest in a proper, in-person relationship with her? You may need to take a couple of days off to start the next relationship off on the right footing.

You lost me when you said you moved schools for on with better status

Me too. You will need to have explained this situation to your children and it sounds as though they didn’t want to change schools. Why would they?! They had already had enough upheavals. It sounds likely your youngest started playing up out of protest.

I also don’t think you know your children well enough to make a judgment as to whether or not they are lying. Some children (and indeed adults) readily lie. Others do not. If your children thought you were going to punish them for bad behaviour, of course they’ll lie. I was pretty truthful as a child used to deny something if I thought I’d be punished. The trick is to tell your dc, you won’t punish them for doing whatever naughty thing if you just tell you the truth.

Somewhere along the line, your children have received the message that your families status is higher than that of the hired help (and yes, I’m being deliberately derogatory right now calling her ‘hired help’). This is hardly surprising really, when you’ve systematically undermined her, believing them over her. And you cemented it by sending them to a high status school, nanny didn’t attend one of those, did she?

I also think you’ll go through plenty of nannies if you don’t start listening to them. And start thinking more about your children as people, who need to be guided, respect adults and given the opportunity to be truthful without judgment.

You are bringing up future adults and allowing them to lie and believe they are superior to others of ‘lower status’. This really is not going to end well. Potential narcissists in the making.

I do have experience of the private schooling sector btw. It is far more important that your children thrive than go to the highest status school.

I meant to add, I know this will not encourage your nanny to return. However, I would send her a short email or better yet, a letter to apologise for your behaviour, state you have learned from it and wish her well. This will help you to see life from her perspective and give your family a chance to do better with the next nanny. Then give her a good reference, perhaps emphasising her punctuality, care for your children’s safety, education and well-being.

She can't work for you if you won't support her with your children's behaviour. Especially if you behind the word of a six year old over her. Of course they will deny misbehaving. Changing schools so often will really not help. And definitely not a great idea if they are settled. Just because one is better status. Status is not everything. She's dodged a bullet with you.

@SecretKeeper1

Oh dear, OP. I think you need to read Parenting 101 again. If you don’t have time I’ll sum it up for you: children lie. Big lies, little lies, lies to get treats, lies to avoid trouble.

Find a new nanny, or even better give it a whirl yourself; a week or two should be long enough for you to realise your kids can be fibbing little fuckers like most kids. Good luck!

This

There are ways to have the conversation with your child without undermining the nanny. The messing around by the road thing; they didn't think they were by the nanny did. You don't necessarily need to punish but you can explain the need to listen to the adult and do what she asks, and why. My mum insists on holding DDs hand to cross the road. I don't but explain to DD she must follow Grannie's rules with her.

It's interesting that you say they behave at school. Probably because school has a given authority and they know not to mess with it.

You nuked her authority.

Plus, who did they gossip about her with? An unusual expression to use about 6 and 10 years olds

I’m not surprised she quit. I would have too. You sound like a total nightmare of a boss. Why would the nanny lie? She’s got nothing to gain from it. It’s like when I call a parent (teacher) to report poor behaviour/lack of work etc and I’m not believed or the parent makes excuses. It’s a hassle and I don’t want to do it but I do because it’s my job, just like it was your nanny’s job to tell you about the behaviour of your children. It’s such a shame that you basically called her a liar.

Your child doesn't listen? ...... The apple hasn't fallen far from the tree has it?

@ItsFuckingJuneDadQuickHide

Your child doesn't listen? ...... The apple hasn't fallen far from the tree has it?

Bravo

@TheBestofTimesTheWorstofTimes

It's interesting that you say they behave at school. Probably because school has a given authority and they know not to mess with it.

You nuked her authority.

Plus, who did they gossip about her with? An unusual expression to use about 6 and 10 years olds

I’m glad you said that - I wondered too what the “gossiping” was and found it a very odd thing to say.

“Fibbing little fuckers” 🤣
This is spot on.
OP has mixed up her grand philosophical position of “I believe you” with common sense.

I think you will be working through a list of Nannies. You seem unwilling to bend your views about your children's behaviour. The nanny wouldn't complain about them unless there was an issue surely?? The children have had a lot of disruption so of course they will act out. But as their parent that is up to you to sort out. The nanny said this poor behaviour started when they changed schools a second time, have you delved deeper into that with your kids? Were they happier at the other school? Good luck with it but try viewing the situation with more flexibility.

I don't think OP will be back. She's not acknowledging anything a lot of us have said and advised.

Hopefully she's silently taking it all on board and will learn from this.

@ItsFuckingJuneDadQuickHide

Your child doesn't listen? ...... The apple hasn't fallen far from the tree has it?

👏👏👏

Often children who behave really well at school are less well behaved at home. For some kids, containing themselves and having to behave for such a long time in a controlled school environment, means the only time they can let off steam is at home. In fact, the fact you said they are really well behaved at school immediately made me think they are likely to be acting up at home. Coupled with the fact they don't often see you and their dad and have had so many changes recently, means it's likely they are acting up. This is really normal though, with everything they're going through.

It is normal which is why we have not punished the behaviour up until now. As I said though, I am at home every Friday and weekends and partner always around of an evening and often in the week. We needed a nanny to cover those awkward times but actually feel now that we may be able to cope without one for the time being. Perhaps in a way this has been the catalyst for a new start in our family where we come together.
In terms of the behaviour, as someone said upthread, what she was reporting back to us could be seen from different angles. What's naughty to her or misbehaving may not be seen like that from them. She clearly wasn't the right fit for us and we both feel that maybe she is more suited to younger children than older.
As for the school, the kids love it there and are thriving. They wanted to go to this school and it has better secondary school links. I don't think that is an issue. I do feel that for whatever reason, the relationship broke down between nanny and kids and I do still question whether the kids were being truly naughty on every occasion or if it was just a difference in interpretation. The kids swear blind that they did nothing wrong at times and it seems out of character so as times goes on, it does leave me feeling anxious that they were telling the truth a lot of the time and nanny just read it wrong. I know they did wrong on some occasions but I question some of the other incidents. I won't apologise for that.