Still can't quite believe the ambulance service said 'we can't help you' :-O

[mineofuselessinformation]

DC2 (young adult) woke me at 6.30 this morning in severe abdominal pain. I ran through the usual things: painkillers, constipation etc.
By 7.30 it had escalated (pain score 8), so I called 111. They advised that DC needed to have help: they would call back within the hour or send a non-urgent ambulance. Advised if pain worsened to call 999. Happy with that although not good to see DC so unwell.
30 mins later pain had increased - DC slapping themselves on the leg to try to distract from the pain and in clear distress, so called 999. Ran through symptoms with them, told them 111 had advised to call.
Their response after asking questions: 'we can't help you'.
Luckily 111 called back five minutes later so I told them what had happened. They sent an ambulance which attended. Advised to take DC straight to A&E as symptoms weren't giving a clear picture as to what was wrong, clearly needed to be seen, but not at death's door just yet. (I don't have an issue with this but did tell them I was concerned at driving quite a distance with someone so unwell in the car in my own.)
We duly attended and the upshot was that DC has what used to be called a 'grumbling appendix'. We were told symptoms may well recur and to attend A&E if they do. (By this point the pain had settled a lot due to codeine.)

I've never experienced this before - the 999 call handler had no way of knowing nothing serious was wrong with DC, yet still gave me a flat no - and I was told to ring by 111. (And DC could have had a ruptured appendix, given their pain and symptoms.)
I don't know why I'm posting except to get it off my chest, but I am wondering if the call handler needs to have a bit more training?

While I am all for not calling ambulances unless necessary, some of these posts are making calling an ambulance seem like a shameful thing. People with no medical training don't always no when something is an emergency and when it is not. Are ambulances only for when someone has stopped breathing now? This thread has the potential to put someone off calling an ambulance when one is really needed, because they don't want to be a nuisance.

Why would you need an ambulance for appendicitis? You should have driven, yes it would have been worrying but you just have to pull yourself together and get on with it. You’d have got there quicker anyway.

@SerenaJoy, thank you. (You sound much nicer than your namesake!) I was told to call 999 if things got worse, so didn't know what to do when we were turned down. DC is better, but still in some pain - and we were told that a recurrence is likely. At least we know what to do now.
I'm horrified that the NHS is so stretched (one of my siblings works in a very senior role in a hospital so I'm aware of the difficulties).

I certainly didn't vote for the government that have left the NHS so under-funded, for those that have made the comments.

@NorthEastLass exactly… codeine doesn’t touch my period pain. When my husband was taken suddenly ill he was given high doses of morphine within minutes at a&e and it still didn’t take away all the pain. We still went by car, instead of an ambulance because it was the most sensible option. Similar to OP it was a huge shock and we had no idea what was causing the pain or if it would get worse as I drove him - utterly terrifying but my only thought was to get him to hospital as soon as possible.

So often, the reason an ambulance is not sent is because none or available. In our Area waiting for an Ambulance is between 2 and 6 hours. A 111 call back can be 8 hours. In such a case as you describe, I think a 30 minute drive or cab ride cannot be worse than unknown hours in your own home.

@Prescottdanni123

While I am all for not calling ambulances unless necessary, some of these posts are making calling an ambulance seem like a shameful thing. People with no medical training don't always no when something is an emergency and when it is not. Are ambulances only for when someone has stopped breathing now? This thread has the potential to put someone off calling an ambulance when one is really needed, because they don't want to be a nuisance.

If the person isn't in a life threatening state (bleeding, breathing) and you are confident can move them safely yourself (broken bones) generally you can take them to A&E yourself or in a taxi.

@Prescottdanni123

While I am all for not calling ambulances unless necessary, some of these posts are making calling an ambulance seem like a shameful thing. People with no medical training don't always no when something is an emergency and when it is not. Are ambulances only for when someone has stopped breathing now? This thread has the potential to put someone off calling an ambulance when one is really needed, because they don't want to be a nuisance.

It's never been any different. 999 is for immediate, life-threatening medical situations.

"Call 999 in a medical emergency. This is when someone is seriously ill or injured and their life is at risk."

Medical emergencies can include:

loss of consciousness
an acute confused state
fits that are not stopping
chest pain
breathing difficulties
severe bleeding that cannot be stopped
severe allergic reactions
severe burns or scalds

@NorthEastLass, would you be prepared to give someone codeine who wasn't told to take it or prescribed it? A serious question not intended to be goady. I'd be very unhappy doing that and didn't.
As it happens I do have codeine because I have been prescribed it, but I'd never give it to someone else unless it's indicated by medical professionals.

@SmellyOldPartridgeinaPearTree

What if I am in a situation where I don't know if I can move them safely? What if there is potential for their condition to worsen in my car? I can't deliver emergency first aid when I am driving, and there is not always anywhere to safely pull over if I do need to do something to help them on route. As I said in an earlier post, hindsight can be wonderful.

[quote mineofuselessinformation]@NorthEastLass, would you be prepared to give someone codeine who wasn't told to take it or prescribed it? A serious question not intended to be goady. I'd be very unhappy doing that and didn't.
As it happens I do have codeine because I have been prescribed it, but I'd never give it to someone else unless it's indicated by medical professionals.[/quote]
No, I wouldn’t. I didn’t ever suggest you should do so although I am able to prescribe (although not for humans)!

This doesn’t make the situation bad enough to require an ambulance. Now please don’t twist my words.

OP, so you have a person with extra needs, i understand the weight of responsibility.
i think you have marshall whatever resources may be found.
bang on doors. greet neighbours. most people will try to help in time of real need.
it;s no good being shy. what have you got to lose. the person nearest may not be able to help, but they might know someone down the road who can and will.
don't isolate yourself. just a nodding acquaintance will help.
ask people to help you, to drive or come with you, if it happens again.

And everyone is ignoring the fact that 111 advised OP to dial 999 if their child's condition got worse. Which is what OP did. Loads of people on here acting like she took it upon herself to call an ambulance over a papercut.

Definitely not an ambulance situation.

My then 4yo had a head injury which the school called an ambulance to. After they'd attended to her, they asked me to drive her to hospital myself so they could be released onto another call. 40 mins drive on my own with 4yo in the back. Ended up having surgery so not a small thing. If I could manage that, I'm sure you could have thought to take an adult with stomach pain without cause for complaint.

I myself have been driven to hospital by my dad as an adult when I had severe chest pain and ended up admitted and put on a heart monitor etc. So again, stomach pain is a lesser symptom.

It's not just you OP. A lot of people need to learn when to take someone to hospital themselves vs when to call an ambulance.

@SpindleWhirling

Can I ask posters who drive people to A&E, where do you park your car to get them out safely and into the queue for the reception desk inside?

At our (major hospital A&E) there is nowhere to park outside, just ambulance drop-offs only. The car-park is quite a walk away, and very busy.

There really aren't paramedics and surgeons hovering about like on Casualty and Holby City outside A&E.

When you get in, there is just an ambulatory queue for reception. You queue for however long it takes to give your details and then you sit and wait for a triage nurse to come through and call you through a massive closed door.

Then they decide what to do with you.

If you're fucked, you need to get in to A&E via an ambulance stretcher or trolley, basically.

At our local hospitals (London commuter belt - incredibly busy) there’s a parking warden who directs you to a space, or tells to park in an emergency bay, depending on how urgent the situation is.

You’ll then get to triage, where you’re sent to either paediatric a&e or general a&e.

@NMC2022

For instance you've got ten ambulances

You have
5 people with chest pain
5 unconscious
2 fitting
1 not breathing
1 stabbing

You're still 4 ambulances short. Whilst you send the 10 ambulances, and have 4 waiting (and who do you pick to wait?) another 10 calls come in

5 with breathing issues
2 fitting
2 stabbing
1 not breathing

We haven't even got to the cut to arm, abdo pain, fallen over, banged head, swallowed medication... they are still somewhere down the list. And then another 10 priority calls come in... this is why sometimes people who have fallen are waiting for 3/4/5hrs

This is spot on.

'mineofuselessinformation
@1WeekTillChristmas, could you point me to where I gave any information about when the codeine was given? Because unless you can, you don't know whether it was before or after we arrived in A&E.'
I think they meant if he didn’t need anything stronger then it certainly didn’t require an ambulance.
I’ve had headaches that codeine isn’t strong enough for, for example..

@NorthEastLass this is your post. I'm not twisting your words. As I pointed out, I didn't say when DC was given codeine. Your response was that if had settled, an ambulance wasn't needed. By the time the pain settled down, we had been at A&E for over two hours. Does that make it clear?

my Granny's carer phoned an ambulance for her in October, she was 88, had cancer, bed bound and the carer suspected an infection after a deterioration in her condition. carer was unable to take her due to not being able to transport her and her medical equipment down the stairs. the carer was told that she didn't require an ambulance and to contact the home visits doctor instead. to add, the carer is an older and experienced carer and had never had this happen before. Based in Scotland.

Sorry OP that sounds awful but ambulances aren’t taxis that are there because you just don’t fancy driving yourself

@mineofuselessinformation
In no way did I suggest giving any medication. I was clarifying what a previous poster meant.
You’re being very defensive for no reason. The situation didn’t need an ambulance, you realise this now. Your adult son received treatment and you know to to respond in the future.

@Prescottdanni123

And everyone is ignoring the fact that 111 advised OP to dial 999 if their child's condition got worse. Which is what OP did. Loads of people on here acting like she took it upon herself to call an ambulance over a papercut.

111 would actually advise calling 999 for a paper cut.

I'm also EA area and had a similar experience a few years ago. 999 said they wouldn't send anyone and would get someone to call us back. I ended up arguing then hanging up on them. Whilst I was trying to get my husband (in immense pain) into the car, they rang me back and I hung up on them again as I quite simply didn't have time to discuss the fact they weren't sending anyone. Luckily our gp surgery is a 30 second drive away. They injected him with some anti inflammatory and gave him some morphine! Then asked why I hadn't rang an ambulance

Turned out he had kidney stones but this was the first 'attack' so we didn't know what was going on.

111 would actually advise calling 999 for a paper cut.

Lol!

This is true I think call handlers don’t want to be held accountable if something goes wrong. My friend’s son once poked him in the eye and had a really dirty fingernail, my friend was in a lot of pain and his eye was weeping yellow goo so as it was late night his wife called 111 - they wanted to send an ambulance!! For a poked eye! His wife had to convince the call handler it was completely unnecessary, they just want an OOH appointment!

I don't agree with the sentiment that we should think about calling an ambulance because the NHS is on its knees. We should only be considering the situation on its merits - i.e. on whether we think it is needed.

We cannot blame the OP for thinking this considering that she was advised to do this by a professional. It sounds so typical of large organisations that there is such inconsistency of advice and policy. This is not the OP's fault.

And I don't think anyone should be proud of the fact that they'd driven loved ones in agony, bleeding to death, stopping breathing because they did not want to be seen as a nuisance. I really do hate the way people think this is virtuous. The NHS is a service we all fund and we should be angry that we are now in a situation where we are made to feel that we can't use it for fear of being seen to abuse it.

@NorthEastLass, no I'm not being defensive, just reminding folks of what I actually said or meant to infer.

@mineofuselessinformation
That’s fair enough, words and tone can be misconstrued online. I hope your DS doesn’t have have any further issues