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Original poster

My husband is thinking about joining the Masons and I am horrified

280 replies

SovietTrumpet · 20/12/2021 18:35

I hate boys’ clubs and silly rituals etc and doing each other favours. He thinks it will help him at work. Arguments please against and in favour…

OP posts:
Orreries · 21/12/2021 16:19

@PhilCornwall1

I do think there is a massive ego thing to it.

I can remember my father being "promoted" to some position, oh I don't know, Provincial Grand Willy Warmer or whatever it was. You'd have thought there had been a toot of white smoke out the chimney and he'd become the sodding Pope the way he carried on.

It's nothing more than a kids club for adults.

You dare to disrespect the Provincial Grand Willy Warmer??? Grin

Obviously, vengeance shall smite thee down.

Bloodypunkrockers · 21/12/2021 18:21

My dad was asked a few times although someone did say that he wasn't to be trusted as he was a catholic. The thinking being that catholics go to confession so can't keep secrets

My dad turned all offers down.

PhilCornwall1 · 21/12/2021 18:34
  • You dare to disrespect the Provincial Grand Willy Warmer???

Obviously, vengeance shall smite thee down.*

🤣🤣🤣

Double3xposure · 22/12/2021 14:00

I agree it’s a kids club for adults, with a bit of bribery and corruption thrown in. If it was about charitable fundraising they’d join the round table.

GreenBill · 22/12/2021 15:21

I know a few Masons. They joined because it’s a rite of passage in their profession (law) and they were flattered to be asked and were curious about it as an organisation. They don’t ever talk about it, but nor do they deny being members. One of them is not white nor Christian, and all of them seem to be married to impressive women so I don’t think they’re misogynistic or sexist. That said they all belong to a lodge connected to their school and perhaps other lodges have very different characteristics as evidenced by some of the comments here.

That said, there is much talk in Manchester about a schoolboy killer walking free because of his father and his lawyer’s Masonic friends.

EishetChayil · 22/12/2021 15:29

"Doing charity work" is a code for "we're a bunch of frauds/nonces" (delete as applicable).

Orreries · 22/12/2021 15:29

@Bloodypunkrockers

My dad was asked a few times although someone did say that he wasn't to be trusted as he was a catholic. The thinking being that catholics go to confession so can't keep secrets

My dad turned all offers down.

But you confess your own sins at confession, not pass on to Fr Whatsit what naughty Bernard and Malcolm from down the Lodge got up to off the books.
Double3xposure · 22/12/2021 18:04

But you confess your own sins at confession, not pass on to Fr Whatsit what naughty Bernard and Malcolm from down the Lodge got up to off the books

But what if your own sin was not pressing charges against a criminal because he was a brother mason? Or even getting rid of inconvenience evidence .

Or awarding a contact / house purchase/ job to not the best company / person but to another Mason ?

That’s your sin but it affects others and is often a crime ( Bribery Act 2010).

What do you think these men mean when they say they join because they can make business contacts ? Every business person in the country is online or had a mobile phone - there’s no problem contacting anyone.

It’s about giving preference to brother Masons over others ( women, black people, Catholics, etc ) . Often using public or your employer’s money.

Find if it’s your own company and you want to buy your widgets from a mason at twice the market price . But not if it’s tax payers money.

We all think it’s Corrupt when the Tories give contacts to the guy who runs their local pub.

turnaroundtime · 22/12/2021 21:20

@rosie1959

I can’t understand why you are horrified Masons do a lot of charity worK. They have a strong ethos of looking after their own It can help in all sorts of situations you would never even think of especially if you are in business I have a family member who is in the Masons and has certainly not done them any harm in fact quite a lot of good And yes they will recognise another Mason by a handshake There are also female lodges so it’s not all men
Looking after your own isn't charity.
turnaroundtime · 22/12/2021 21:22

@thatsallineed

You have to be invited. Has he actually been asked?
Not anymore. Their numbers are dwindling. You can look online at how to apply
kokokokokokokokoko · 22/12/2021 21:34

ended up getting shown around the mason museum by an older guy, basically he spent around an hour talking to my ex and wouldn't shut up... it was interesting to start with then got insufferably boring and struck me as culty and weird. I was surprised at how much the guy went on, how he would think it was ok to chat and chat and chat for hours, explaining his "craft" and ignore me most of the time. yawn.

Bouledeneige · 23/12/2021 13:14

I think it's outdated and creepy. Misogynistic, racist you name it. I don't think much of people joining a secret club to get a leg up in the world. I'm more into equalities and merit. I worked with a very inadequate male who was a member and told me about it very proudly (which is obviously against the rules). I thought he was a saddo.

Yes they have some great charities. A way to sugar the pill of wanting self serving special treatment. You can be hugely generous and charitable without need to join the club.

turnaroundtime · 23/12/2021 17:45

@Bouledeneige

I think it's outdated and creepy. Misogynistic, racist you name it. I don't think much of people joining a secret club to get a leg up in the world. I'm more into equalities and merit. I worked with a very inadequate male who was a member and told me about it very proudly (which is obviously against the rules). I thought he was a saddo.

Yes they have some great charities. A way to sugar the pill of wanting self serving special treatment. You can be hugely generous and charitable without need to join the club.

It's not against the rules. They can't tell you the 'secrets' but they are perfectly within the rules to tell you that they are masons
rockinghorsebadge · 23/12/2021 21:07

I'm more into equalities and merit.

GrinGrinGrin

saraclara · 23/12/2021 21:38

No-one joins the masons because they want to do charitable work. They join it because other members are influential and they prioritise other masons for work/promotions etc.

Given that we're all complaining about the present government giving contracts to their friends, we should also be very concerned about what goes on inside the masons.

EightWheelGirl · 25/12/2021 14:12

No-one joins the masons because they want to do charitable work. They join it because other members are influential and they prioritise other masons for work/promotions etc.

Yes, they're a networking group for men, like all the 'Women in Business' groups.

Bearyhumcrack · 25/12/2021 20:02

@EightWheelGirl agree. Super important that men get extra represented in those fields where they are traditionally only normally represented by being every fucking CEO in history. Women in business just need to get back in the kitchen.

EightWheelGirl · 25/12/2021 22:21

[quote Bearyhumcrack]@EightWheelGirl agree. Super important that men get extra represented in those fields where they are traditionally only normally represented by being every fucking CEO in history. Women in business just need to get back in the kitchen.[/quote]
You must be very privileged if you or your partner are candidates for CEO jobs. Vast majority of men don't ever come close. The two guys I know who went to masonic meetings were both in the early days of running small businesses and one really benefitted from meeting loads of local business owners.

I'm sure his wife would've preferred his business succeeded rather than failed, and given that lots of men are the primary/sole earner I'd imagine a lot of women feel the same. It doesn't help women if men do worse. Women should aim to do better because the ideal situation is both partners achieving their full potential given their individual circumstances.

AppleKatie · 25/12/2021 23:10

Oh absolutely. And woman as a class have never ever been held back by conversations happening in all male environments and a culture of jobs for the boys.

Oh wait.

EightWheelGirl · 26/12/2021 00:14

@AppleKatie

Oh absolutely. And woman as a class have never ever been held back by conversations happening in all male environments and a culture of jobs for the boys.

Oh wait.

Well, in spite of being held back, young women in both the US/UK have still somehow been outearning young men for well over a decade now. The men only seem to catch up at around 35-40yo (depending on study) which is funnily enough the age most women have children nowadays. Hell, of a coincidence, right?

The Economist also did a study which found that childless female execs 'continued to be promoted more aggressively than their male counterparts' . So it seems to me that it's less about men hogging the jobs and more about women hogging all the maternity leave and going off track. And then deciding that actually it's not such a bad life to work three days a week for the rest of their working lives.

AppleKatie · 26/12/2021 11:24

Yup and maternity discrimination isn’t a thing either is it? And all women make free and fair choices about the way they bring up their children. You only have to read mumsnet at Christmas to see the utopia we’re all living in. Aren’t we lucky (and a bit feckless!) eh!

EightWheelGirl · 26/12/2021 11:46

@AppleKatie

Yup and maternity discrimination isn’t a thing either is it? And all women make free and fair choices about the way they bring up their children. You only have to read mumsnet at Christmas to see the utopia we’re all living in. Aren’t we lucky (and a bit feckless!) eh!
But nobody ever seems to question whether the husband actually minds working full time from his early 20s right through to retirement age. Over 40 years without more than the odd fortnight off work.

It's always about the poor wife who had the chore of working three days a week and however will she regain her earning potential. This to me seems to be at odds with the fairly significant number of women who seem to be in no great hurry to rush back to FT work now their husband's salary has increased and they can get by without the extra money.

Was certainly an eye opener last time there was a thread on it here. Plenty of women trying to downplay the privilege but didn't really ring true with the all the "I have a great life, go to the gym every day and meet my friends, thanks to hubby's hard work" posts, which seemed rather ubiquitous.

Double3xposure · 26/12/2021 11:48

@EightWheelGirl

Anyone, parent or not, can apply to work part time, it’s illegal for part time posts to be advertised for women only or parents only.

If you have seen a part time job that you want, just go ahead and apply , even if you are not a parent or a woman. There are lots of places where you can get advice on your application or on writing a CV.

EightWheelGirl · 26/12/2021 12:28

[quote Double3xposure]@EightWheelGirl

Anyone, parent or not, can apply to work part time, it’s illegal for part time posts to be advertised for women only or parents only.

If you have seen a part time job that you want, just go ahead and apply , even if you are not a parent or a woman. There are lots of places where you can get advice on your application or on writing a CV.[/quote]
And a woman can also apply for any job. Even CEO jobs. However, as we well know, the laws belie the reality.

Fact is, for all the talk of maternity setbacks etc, I've not yet met a single woman who completely rejected ML in favour of her partner doing it. All the cases where I've heard of this have usually been due to husband earning significantly less. The increased divorce rate of SAHDs shows how much we like it when men put the shoe on the other foot.

Double3xposure · 26/12/2021 12:53

@EightWheelGirl you seem really upset by some parents working part time .

Are you trying to get into the labour market after a long period of unemployment ?

Do you believe that these parents are stealing your jobs ?

I’m trying to understand why you are so upset and angry about parents taking parental leave and / or working part time.