Star Hobson’s mother

[HermioneWeasley]

I read as an incidental comment that she had an IQ of 70. This doesn’t seem to have been taken into account by social services in terms of her needing more support or being vulnerable. Does anyone know what would normally happen? It seems like a very significant factor which should have had social services on alert.

@Walkaround

Sorry, that was for @Jellycatspyjamas.

Rates of teenage pregnancy have been dropping consistently over the last 10 years or so, with rates more than halving in my area in that time. A lot of work is going into discouraging young pregnancy. What do you suggest we do if people continue to get pregnant?

@Malibuismysecrethome

Treesofthefield so burnout is high and SW’s get signed off with stress, what do they expect their job will be if they are looking after abused children it’s not going to be easy is it? They can attend home visits accompanied by the police and in fact on two of the visits to Star’s home the police went with them. They failed to do their job, end of, and another child died. How anyone can see that photo of Star’s cheek and not realise something is horrifically wrong I fail to see. It was bruising normally seen after a car crash or similar. We need to stop making excuses, many people would have cared for Arthur and Star they just didn’t get the opportunity because of failures by Child Protection Social Workers, yet again.

Jellycat has already perfectly addressed your first point.

I’d also say it’s very rare for police to provide an officer to attend with a social worker, and the very fact they did so on two occasions to Star’s hone would suggest they were taking things more seriously than has been suggested. But to remove a child, clear evidence is needed. Perhaps if they’d done a more thorough assessment or had legal powers of intervention above current levels, things might’ve been different, but before pointing fingers of blame at individuals - without the benefit of the serious case review - perhaps it’s also wise to think about the structural issues faced by social workers which many have already clearly highlighted. None of us want to be doing the job in this way, where we are having to make a call about which child is least likely to die if we don’t visit them, or cutting our visits short because we don’t have the time to spend with them.

Malibu I’ll ask you the same question I asked Pizz - as in this case the bruising had been examined by a paediatrician who was not of the view it was inconsistent with the story given by FS/SB, what else could the social worker have done when faced with that expert medical opinion (which we now know was tragically wrong, but evidentially, it’s not for a social worker to overrule a medical expert).

@MrsTerryPratchett

There should be an enshrined right to take the child in question to an independent assessment place where they can (in the presence of doctors/nurses) be examined both physically and by questioning with no parents/family members present and this should be accepted as a right of police/social workers to do this. It can be filmed in terms of evidence and shared.

Are you happy for this to happen to your child? Because malicious reports are rife. And anyone could report and you child is treated like this.

None of this is easy and simple with lovely black and white answers. SWs aren't stupid, they think of solutions.

5 separate reports and you don't think this is negligence. And this is coming from someone who has been maliciously reported/preemptively blackmailed with social services

I don't know about pp, but I'm happy for my children to be questioned away from me. It's clear they're happy and nothing's wrong with them.

Thanks for posting this. It provides crucial background information. Funny how nobody is criticising the doctor.

Doctor should be criticised for but it's also possible there were no visible injuries present. They'd need to have an X-ray presumably to pick up fractures. If there's no bruising they'll be dismissed. They might've picked up on her withdrawn behaviour but that could've been easily explained by a cold, feel a bit nervous etc.

We need more accountability not less. SS we're wrong in this case, a lot of times they get it right, here they did not. The end.

So if the doctor says the injuries are consistent with the parents explanation, on what basis are you removing the kids?

@Jellycatspyjamas

So if the doctor says the injuries are consistent with the parents explanation, on what basis are you removing the kids?

Doesn't mean close the report if five people including a no family me ever raise concerns. I can understand the early reports. How can you, with a sound conscience, say that the final reports were justly dismissed? Her family POSTED the evidence on Facebook. You don't need a paediatricians report at that point it's right there

@Jellycatspyjamas

I would start by stopping the practice of providing housing in independent units for teen mothers and their children. This acts as an incentive for girls in those areas with no other prospects of independent living to have a baby This is an entirely rational economic choice for them as it replaces a life of unemployment, or a precarious dead end job and gives them a status and a purpose in life. I realise that the unit that FS was in was supposed to come with some kind of support. But clearly it did not.

I would make receipt of state benefits by these mothers dependent on them continuing to access education/training . And I would provide wrap around day care for the children to protect them and to allow the mothers to develop the skills they need or to work. This would be in the best interests of the mothers, the children and society at large. Again, I realise this comes at a price - but it is one that works out far lower than the cost of supporting the many children born into these circumstances who end up with lifelong problems.

And I would lower the bar for removing children from these circumstances and placing them in long term foster care/kinship care/ and adoptive placements.

The average 10 year old (age of criminal responsibility in the UK) has an IQ of 70 and the average 10 year old knows not to torture and murder a child.

@pizz

Thanks for posting this. It provides crucial background information. Funny how nobody is criticising the doctor.

Doctor should be criticised for but it's also possible there were no visible injuries present. They'd need to have an X-ray presumably to pick up fractures. If there's no bruising they'll be dismissed. They might've picked up on her withdrawn behaviour but that could've been easily explained by a cold, feel a bit nervous etc.

We need more accountability not less. SS we're wrong in this case, a lot of times they get it right, here they did not. The end.

Children don’t have paediatric medical for no reason - we’ve all seen the bruises that led to Star being seen. Why are you so insistent that social workers got it wrong, when they are arranging for Star to be seen by medical experts because they’re concerned, and are then told by that expert that there’s no evidence to substantiate that concern?

What should they have done given this background information?

Her IQ is not irrelevant at all. She was also highly compliant.

People keep saying that their 5 year old or most people with LD know right from wrong. Yes, that's true. BUT would they still be able to do the right thing when being manipulated and leaned on by an evil sociopath?

Why do you think that so many children in schools join in bullying?

Now, obviously the judge feels that FS chose to stay in the relationship when she could have done more for Star. I agree. I don't know how SB was allowed to go near Star after she came home with that awful bruise. Certainly. She deserves punishment.

But people saying this stuff about IQ being irrelevant- you don't know what you're talking about clearly.

Average IQ is 100.

Just seen some pictures David (step-grandad) has released. She does look quite vacant and vulnerable as a little girl tbh.

Also you’re really trying hard to find reasons why the paediatrician might have missed what was going on, but not extending that same understanding to social workers.

(As an aside, photos posted on Facebook are not by themselves evidence of a standard that could be put before a court - paediatric reports would be needed - so what seems to have happened here is the social workers, health and police had what’s called a strategy discussion, decided there were concerns requiring Star to be examined, arranged the medical exam, and were then told the concerns could not be substantiated. You can’t go to court with that as evidence.)

@MichelleScarn

With her current charges, provided she complies with social services, she may get another chance at a family.

What a horrifying thought.

Indeed we hang onto our reproductive rights well in this country however you really need to ask if some people are capable of having a baby. Personally I wouldn't be against the state getting involved in stopping the chance of this happening in the case of either sex where there was s s strong likelihood of abuse returning.

Teen and baby units were created because teen mums and babies were ending up in abusive relationships, being exploited sexually, ending up on drugs because they had no stable home or support. Many of not all of these young people have left local authority care, had significant trauma in their past and/or have significant learning difficulties. For these kids it’s not a choice between staying in a comfortable home with supportive parents or becoming a mum and going into a teen and baby unit. It’s the choice between being housed with a baby or being on the streets with a baby.

And if we lower the bar for teenage mums to have their children removed, we lower it for everyone - neglectful abusive parents come in all shapes and sizes and ages.

The benefits system does compel women to work, once their children are old enough for funded childcare.

I’d also say that not all young mums are incapable, in fact many are excellent parents, attuned to their kids and so caring. Exactly the same as older mums. So measures to address neglectful teen mums would discriminate against those who are doing well.

@LizBennet

Just seen some pictures David (step-grandad) has released. She does look quite vacant and vulnerable as a little girl tbh.

It’s so sad that he’s planning on sending those photos to her in prison so that he can try and get her to remember the girl she once was. He’s desperately trying to fix a horrendous situation, poor man.

Once upon a time I was a very traumatised young girl, who also put herself in the most awful of situations and I needed a trigger to flick a switch in my mind too (although I didn’t realise it at the time), so it can work.

I feel so sad for him NoNames, he must be bewildered as well as heartbroken 😔

JeffthePilot I would like to know if the paediatrician was shown the photo of Star’s heavily bruised face and made his decision based on seeing that photo. Or was it a case of him seeing her when she had recovered. My betting is in the latter. Please do not keep defending the indefensible.

So you don’t know what the paediatrician saw, and assessed on but your assumption is they did their job competently. You also don’t know what the social worker saw or didn’t see and your assumption is they were negligent.

From what I remember, FS had witnessed Star fall on the coffee table and hit her cheek. Brockhill had assaulted Star after this, and convinced FS that the major injury was caused by the minor accident. So when FS confidently told the Paed at the police examination what had happened exactly and when (believing this was the case) the Paed accepted that version of events because it all added up. Brockhill was not happy with Star having an examination and said they couldn’t take her whereas FS was happy for her to go to hospital because she believed nothing was amiss.

Also just to add that it was noted that the Paed who carried out the examination was a junior with very little experience in that field, so I hope lessons will be learned (hard eye roll) and these kind of examinations will only be carried out by experienced Drs in the future.

That means having experienced doctors available, and having experienced social workers and health visitors, who are all leaving the field of child protection because of high case loads, increasing levels of risk and high stress levels.

@NoNamesAvailableAnymore

Also just to add that it was noted that the Paed who carried out the examination was a junior with very little experience in that field, so I hope lessons will be learned (hard eye roll) and these kind of examinations will only be carried out by experienced Drs in the future.

Junior Doctors often examine people ,they are fully qualified Doctors but are still training in their area of expertise .

Jellycat family members were horrified and reported the injury to social services in five separate reports as they were horrified. Do you consider this a normal bruise or injury because I certainly don’t.

@xxxGirlCrushxxx

I have no idea what my IQ is! Do you know yours?

How does it matter?

How does it matter?! She's what until recently, according to Google, 'intellectually disabled'. I would hope SS would be able to recognise someone who is.