What is living in South Africa like?

[RubyFakeLips]

Obviously at present SA/Omicron issue is prevalent, but COVID aside what is it like to live there?

Speaking to old South African colleague today, she again mentioned she would never, ever move back. Says life is awful, family have all emigrated. Yet, in the past 10 years I've know a fair few people move there from the UK.

Curious for some real experiences.

My SA friend says the same . She misses SA hugely but says it is very violent. All of her family are still there though.

Yes, always described as very violent. I can't gauge how much that impacts average person day to day.

Is it like London where lots of press on knife crime but majority of citizens unaffected on a regular basis?

I know a few people from SA who now live in my town. They've all said they left because it didn't feel safe.

I found living there really stressful with young children as it felt you just couldnt keep them safe. I think it would depend on where you live, Cape Town felt so much safer and very different than where we lived in rural SA. Guns are everywhere and very normal, like the guard outside the supermarket has a machine gun, the kids self defence teacher wears one while teaching etc. Your home has bars on it and barbed wire round. There is a lot of violence, its very different from the UK. I think its wonderful to visit but not so nice to live in, especially with children.

I was born and raised in SA. No amount of great weather and scenery would make me go back and live in that constant state of fear and high security. I never take my civil liberties for granted living in London.

My SA friends emigrated because they didn't feel safe. They wouldn't drive without a gun in the glove compartment. They can't get over how safe they feel here.

You have bars on your windows, very careful about where you walk, don't get public transport or uk style taxis if you can help it. Handbag never on your car seat or in view, always on your lap/person when out.

That said, there are some amazing things about living there too.

There are some

When saying you don't feel safe, have many of you experienced crime there or was it more of a general feeling?

Are most criminals armed? Is it robbery that would be the issue or just violent random attacks?

I never owned a gun and lived there for almost 10 years so that doesn't apply to everyone.

@RubyFakeLips

When saying you don't feel safe, have many of you experienced crime there or was it more of a general feeling?

Are most criminals armed? Is it robbery that would be the issue or just violent random attacks?

I never personally experienced crime but I was very lucky. Every one of my family members did and are all lucky to be alive (none still live there).

A lot of the crime is generally more violent.

yes its really nice in the UK that you can just rely on calling the police or an ambulance, that makes things feel so much safer. In SA its very different from that. I kept pepper spray at all times.

@cameocat

A lot of the crime is generally more violent.

This was exactly it for me. You can get robbed/burgled anywhere but in SA the criminal will be able to kill you. It's a beautiful country full of terrific people, and so many experiences that can be had nowhere else. But everyone has a story of violent crime

I have been to Cape Town but it was a good while ago and I really don't remember it as was pregnant and started suffering from horrendous sickness while there. Although I obviously wasn't a victim of crime as I wouldn't forget that.

@RubyFakeLips

When saying you don't feel safe, have many of you experienced crime there or was it more of a general feeling?

Are most criminals armed? Is it robbery that would be the issue or just violent random attacks?

Most criminals will try to kill you for any crime. Sentencing is so harsh it’s in their interest to leave no witnesses.

The company I work for has a SA office. Slowly as people there are starting to get married and have children they are requesting transfers to other offices in other countries. A few years ago we had a big company summit and everyone came over to London. Our South African colleagues couldn’t believe that we’d walk from the office to a bar or that we’d leave our bags at the table while we went to the bar. I had no idea what life in SA was like until they told me about the levels of crime.

A friend comes from a middle class (he says not wealthy) family in SA. They live on a safe secure compound and can walk around there fine but would never dream of going outside without their driver. Not safe apparently.

I have two separate professional friends form SA

They talk about it's beauty but they also say they will never live again in SA

Gated homes guards Rottweilers as guard dogs fear of car jacking very very real. Guns everywhere.

Most criminals will try to kill you for any crime. Sentencing is so harsh it’s in their interest to leave no witnesses.

Christ, that puts things into perspective. Is there a movement in SA to change this or are the sentences seen as necessary?

DH's parents are from SA (living here though) - their family members all have stories of violent crime. You can have an amazing lifestyle there if you have even a medium amount of money, but the price is houses with high walls with barbed wire and security on call. I've always felt safe visiting but it does seem if you're there long enough something will happen.

Cape Town is safer than some other places - Johannesburg I've heard you really have to live in an ultra-secure compound type place.

I have incredibly rich family who live part of the year in SA. Several are multimillionaires and one is a billionaire - all in diamonds / jewellry and so have to live there to keep their African business interests intact. They say they wouldn’t live in SA if they weren’t rich, and even then they only employ household staff through personal recommendation - they rarely advertise. They have also said most wealthy South African kids, regardless of race, will leave SA for education purposes and never return.

so, my DH worked in a hospital and was dealing with endless stabbings, shootings, so so much violence, disarming patients as they came in etc so we were more safety worried perhaps. But the whole culture is very different - for example it was normal for children to be hit with sticks, beaten etc, the security guards would beat people as a norm. At the supermarket people would try to walk off with the children, that kind of thing. Not all over like I say though, it will depend on where you live. But the poverty is just so bad its such an obvious division between rich & poor that you can understand why crime is so high.

There are also massive infrastructure problems caused in part by corrupt governments who spend public funds as personal wealth.

In parts of SA they have rolling electricity blackouts as the generators can't keep up with demand but nobody is building new power stations.

Droughts and water shortages are common.

If you want (eg) a driving licence application form at the post office, you will queue for 2 hours to be told they don't have them. And then you will be offered one for a small bribe.

It's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't live there.

My SA colleague says it's very violent and high risk of crime. If they go on holiday (they go camping a lot) they pack the car in the garage as you can't show that you're going away. Bars on the windows.

Another ex colleague said he moved to the UK after he'd seen one too many gunfights on his street.

Not a place I'd want to live.

I know a lot of people born and bred in SA and still there. I hear of crimes but many aimed at business families. These people would never leave SA, they love it too much despite the crimes. Although I've heard others want to leave but wouldn't know where else to go as each country has its own problems. Perhaps the UK is unaffordable for example.
They even tell me to come live there but I think I'd worry constantly.
They are so calm though! And always going here and there and everywhere. I've tried to ask them a similar question but I feel like I haven't got the whole story.