What is living in South Africa like?

[RubyFakeLips]

Obviously at present SA/Omicron issue is prevalent, but COVID aside what is it like to live there?

Speaking to old South African colleague today, she again mentioned she would never, ever move back. Says life is awful, family have all emigrated. Yet, in the past 10 years I've know a fair few people move there from the UK.

Curious for some real experiences.

I got talking to someone from SA a few years back. He said every single person he knows knows someone who has been murdered.

My parents were from SA originally and I have spent many happy holidays there over the years. It all sounds pretty grim these days.

We haven’t lived there but , frequently went there Pre COVID obviously.
Western cape is relatively safe, it’s the most expensive area too. It’s just a great place to live We know few people who have bought homes in that area and are loving it. not just British but French and German too.

Ofcourse there are extremely dangerous places , some of the crime stories are so horrible.

I think it might be challenging with young children and teens. That’s why some send their kids to boarding school in Europe or move for short period abroad till the children are off to university then move back.
Of course this from the few SA we know. So probably not all are able to do this.

My in laws still live there (too old to get out and not rich enough). Dh left in his mid 20s as a junior Doctor. He dealt with things there that would make your hair stand on end- limbs hacked off with machetes, women gang raped, gun shot wounds were daily occurrences in A&E. That level of violence was totally normal, every day work for him.

His cousin was shot dead by burgers in his flat. His brother was car jacked and just escaped with his life.

You have to be super rich to live any kind of decent life.

Dh would never dream of going back to live there. We go to visit the in laws and I am extremely nervous the whole time.

Who is committing all the crime? Is it one particular demographic?

My husband is from Joberg. We will never, ever live there and he refuses to visit due to how unsafe it is. Family have all left and are scattered around the globe. We've been to the Western Cape for holidays and did feel on edge there. It's heartbreaking as the country is so achingly beautiful.

My colleague from SA moved to uk because he’s an emergency room doctor and was fed up of dealing with gun shot wounds.

The criminals are from different demographics.
The safest I felt when living there was during lockdown which was incredibly strict. No alcohol, no ( legal) tobacco and curfew at 9:00pm until 5am.

@Sunsetsupernova

The company I work for has a SA office. Slowly as people there are starting to get married and have children they are requesting transfers to other offices in other countries. A few years ago we had a big company summit and everyone came over to London. Our South African colleagues couldn’t believe that we’d walk from the office to a bar or that we’d leave our bags at the table while we went to the bar. I had no idea what life in SA was like until they told me about the levels of crime.

Dh did a lot of business in SA and it was the same when a lot of the SA staff came to London for a conference. They were amazed to see people just walking around central London at night. Dh spent a year there, in a small town near the Kruger, and luckily had no bad experiences. We had two (non package) holidays there, all very nice, but we were very careful. Stuck to the Kruger, Cape Town and the Garden Route.

On so many occasions I had people (usually older grandparent types) coming up to me in supermarkets or shopping malls and telling me to "hold their hands tightly" (my children), because people would snatch kids. Terrifying. I hated taking the kids out with me, and that's no life for kids (as we've all experienced these last 2 years! Kids need to be allowed out!).

We were lucky though, and left before we experienced any major crime or loss to our family.

Interesting responses. I’m now wondering how the people I knew that moved there fared, they would all have been ok financially but my neighbours, as an example, were people who constantly left their keys in the front door or the car boot open on London. Can’t imagine them with bars on the windows or carrying a gun.

It's a beautiful country but violent and dysfunctional. Most of my family have emigrated now and none would move back. I rarely go back as I do not like to constantly think about safety. Hard to cope with, as I really had an idyllic childhood there.

Its terrible needing to be so focused on security and you never get over that - all of us still cannot go to bed without doing the rounds to check on doors and windows, even though we aren't there any more.

Now some people with elderly parents still there are having think about how to get them out - if all the kids have emigrated, they are very vulnerable.

The only South Africans I know are ones who have left and would never return under any circumstances. Two brothers even refused to go back when their mum was diagnosed with terminal cancer. She was left to deal with it on her own because she couldn’t afford to move to the U.K. to be with them.

Several Family members and friends live there, none have guns, some live in gated communities but others do not and one does not even have walls/fencing, neither do they have ‘typical’ guard dogs. No drivers or security. None ever experienced direct violence or robberies. Yes there are problems but it is not the same for everyone, irrespective of weath.

When I lived in new Zealand I worked with a colleague who had recently emigrated from SA to NZ. Her daughter who I think was maybe around ten years old had been shot and killed in a drive by shooting in a taxi on her way to school, the other children in the car escaped with minor injuries.

It really depends on where you live. We lived in both Jo’burg & Cape Town. Jo’burg has a siege mentality about it, we’re all in this together type of feeling, and I found people were far friendly there, Cape Town safer but less friendly.
We had electric fences & alarms but only put them on at night as frankly our cat liked to wander around. Once he was in for the night , the fence and alarms were put on.
We were very fortunate as we don’t know anyone who was murdered , but a lot who had been robbed.
The one case of murder in our area of Jo’burg was a woman who we didn’t know, but had heard about who was lovely, kind soul. She was murdered by a man who she had helped. It was very sad & shocking.

I don't have any connection to South Africa but I am absolutely haunted by this story (massive trigger warning) - how barbaric men can be https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6293729/Two-foot-82lb-rock-used-smash-South-African-student-death-gang-raped.html

Sadly the woman's mother died (people strongly suspect suicide) a few years later.

Horrific.

I was held up at gun point in Cape Town in 2005 and had my credit card stolen. All very politely I might add, and I was drunk at the time and didn’t have the good sense to be scared. Just kind of accepted it and handed it over, the gang said thanks and ran off in different directions.

The same night 2 lads from my hostel walked down a road they shouldn’t have and very nearly lost their lives to a gang of street kids who stabbed them for their passports and wallets hidden under their clothes.

I flew into Jo’Burg to stay at the home of a friend of my sisters before I flew to Perth. High walls and barbed wire around their compound, 2 guard dogs and the home separated into quarters so that if thieves got into the main house, a jail cell door stopped them advancing to the bedrooms. Bars on all windows and the jail door was locked every night.

I love SA with all my heart and never felt unsafe there as a tourist, even staying with my family in the rougher parts, but I could and would never raise a family there.

Friends I met there seemed incredulous that in UK and in London, we can walk our dogs on the street without the fear that we’re a target. We can stop at a red light without fear of being car jacked.

My aunt that still lives there made sure her 5 sons all left SA after university in the 80s (because apartheid and they’re “colored”) and none have ever gone back except to visit.

I would never want to live in a country where safety and locking myself in my home behind barbed wire and bars is the norm, and I really wouldn’t want that for my kids. But for millions of South Africans it’s the norm, sadly.

I was born in the UK, but grew up in SA (Natal). Back in the UK now. I personally have been robbed at knife point, threatened with a gun and been in the middle of a shoot out. I did have my own gun as well.

I know a few people/school friends who have been murdered.. Some in horrific ways. I will never go back.

I saw this 'anti-carjacking device' when it was first broadcast in 1998 and due to my then impressionable mind now associate it with South Africa. My overwhelming impression of South Africa from very young was of a terrifyingly violent country and I never wanted to visit (sorry if this offends anyone and I agree the country itself looks beautiful)

My uncles used to live there. When my gran visited, if she wanted to go for a walk, one of them drove beside her in the car. Their next door neighbour was shot and killed while getting into his car one day. Their house was heavily gated.

Tbh my uncles were only there as they are useless feckers who moved out there to take advantage of being white as they couldn't get any jobs here.

Rape capital of the world.
You even have to pay a guard to watch your car when you go to the supermarket- and that was in Cape Town.

Mansions with barbed wire compounds and shanty towns made of corrugated iron sheets for as far as the eye can see - grinding poverty- just as you leave Cape Town airport- how can you enjoy a holiday there and not think about what life must be like for those poor millions? Anyone with a conscience would be horrified at such disparity.

You'd have to ignore/ turn a blind eye/ live blinkered behind barb wired compound walls to actually enjoy a life of privilege there.

Sickening. India and the US also have grindingly poor slums and wealthy people who don't give a damn.

Countries which have an NHS or equivalent has made a huge difference to the lives of ordinary people.

When we were in Durham, we were n the bus goin past the market and there was a hullabaloo and suddenly blood started running across the pavement from a stabbed person. And in Johannesburg there were bullet holes over all the walls. We didn't catch a public bus there.
However Cape Town seemed better. Someone said it looks safe but you'd better not go down any back streets. I replied I don't go down back streets in Preston so not much difference really.
Had a great time there though and met some lovely people but I would be too scared to live there.

I would love to visit and do the game reserves and maybe visit Capetown but am terrified!

I visited in 2017 with sixth form. The teachers took us out drinking (we were 18) and lost us at one point meaning we had to walk back to the hotel at night alone. 3 girls… a man grabbed me on the arm but another man pulled him off. We ran back to the hotel. It felt very unsafe. I was then spiked and raped in magaluf before 11pm the next year though so I suppose it can happen a lot of places :(

I’m not sure I’d ever return but it was stunning

Oops. Not Durham ^ , Durban. I think if I saw blood from a stabbed person in the market in Durham running across the pavement, I'd be freaked! But in Durban there was a a sort of surprise rather than shock. I guess it's,all down to your expectations and what you know.