What is living in South Africa like?

[RubyFakeLips]

Obviously at present SA/Omicron issue is prevalent, but COVID aside what is it like to live there?

Speaking to old South African colleague today, she again mentioned she would never, ever move back. Says life is awful, family have all emigrated. Yet, in the past 10 years I've know a fair few people move there from the UK.

Curious for some real experiences.

I do think that middle class whites who leave SA do give up a lot in terms of lifestyle & probably have to justify it to themselves a lot. I have lived in SA & have many SA relatives & don’t recognise many of these accounts from our experiences.

Or those of us who left (not all middle class white) didn't have the luxuries that would have enabled us to stay and not continue to have the experiences we did? I get it's not horrific for everyone, but for a lot it is really a daily grind, and if you can't find ways or afford ways to shelter yourself from it to a satisfactory degree, then sometimes leaving is best, however beautiful the country.

There absolutely ARE people with great lives in SA. My inlaws extended family side are very well off, and very protected, and have no plans to leave. They love life in SA, and there's no reason for them not to. We'd have stayed if we lived like them! But we didn't, and couldn't, and it wasn't safe for us to stay.

@Snog

My friends would not drive after dark eg to go out for dinner - without being in convoy with at least one other vehicle. All armed. And yes to not stopping at red lights. No way would I want to live like that.

What nonsense.

This is really not the case.

But @isthismylifenow surely you can see that people may have different experiences of living in a country? I don't think it's fair to declare all the "horror" stories on this thread to be false, because they don't fit with your experiences?

If someone asked what life in the uk was like, and people were saying "the private schools are fantastic, housing is easily affordable, private medical care is superb and you get seen quickly, food is cheap... the holidays are great... it's a fantastic life"

Then someone came along and said "that is just absolutely not true at all. It's council housing and food banks, and people on minimum wage", surely you'd see that there can be both sides in one country? And both people can express their experience, but the one is wrong to dismiss the experience of the others?

Someone I knew was from Johannesburg and she came over to the UK. She was frequently amazed at how safe it is here and when she had to call the Police because she was burgled here they turned up. Apparently it is common in Johannesburg that the Police just do now show.

She was also amazed that her child would get free dental care until she was 18 and that the doctor was free for her and her family.

@TheEncouragingStranger

But *@isthismylifenow* surely you can see that people may have different experiences of living in a country? I don't think it's fair to declare all the "horror" stories on this thread to be false, because they don't fit with your experiences?

If someone asked what life in the uk was like, and people were saying "the private schools are fantastic, housing is easily affordable, private medical care is superb and you get seen quickly, food is cheap... the holidays are great... it's a fantastic life"

Then someone came along and said "that is just absolutely not true at all. It's council housing and food banks, and people on minimum wage", surely you'd see that there can be both sides in one country? And both people can express their experience, but the one is wrong to dismiss the experience of the others?

But the posters are posting on hearsay.

I know exactly how things are, seeing as I live here.

I also know an awful lot of people who have left. They are only sharing their 'horror stories'... , as a pp mentioned there is a lot of 'vote leave' which I see very often.

That said, I know an awful lot of people who came back again. As the grass is not always greener.

But to say one cannot go out at night and have to drive around permanently armed, is utter nonsense.

@user1471538283

Someone I knew was from Johannesburg and she came over to the UK. She was frequently amazed at how safe it is here and when she had to call the Police because she was burgled here they turned up. Apparently it is common in Johannesburg that the Police just do now show.

She was also amazed that her child would get free dental care until she was 18 and that the doctor was free for her and her family.

I rest my case.

I'd be very interested to know how things are day to day there, but to ask the question you have to acknowledge one answer isn't going to cover everything because people's location / finances / relationship etc changes their experiences.

I've never been to SA but I'd like to go.

The only info I have is from a friend who moved here. She was brought up rurally but moved to live in a city when she met her husband. She felt the city was unsafe and she wasn't happy to bring children up there. Apparently the crime rate was high in her area and once it effected her (people attempted to break in to her house but fled when her husband fired a gun) they moved to the UK.

On the other side of that, her entire family is still there, living rurally where she was brought up and are very happy. My understanding is they aren't wealthy by any means but aren't struggling and have no intention of leaving as they like their lives there.

I'm not sure of gun laws etc in SA but from what she's said id assume they are lax therefore the dangers associated with being a victim of crime there are increased in the same way they are through most of America so of course a lot of people feel safer in the UK - guns are pretty rare here so it's one less thing to worry about.

As with everywhere though, id think there are places you'd be perfectly safe and others you would definitely avoid. It's just a shame on this thread that it's mostly just the negatives that get posted.

My dh’s great aunt (87) lived in SA for 67 years, with her son and DIL. They had a ‘safe room’ but she had recently fractured her hip and couldn’t move quickly when 4 men broke in.
They shot dead her son, raped her and her DIL multiple times.
Great Aunt D died of shock 3 days later.
Utterly indescribably evil people.

I have a friend in Gauteng province, he grew up in a township in Soweto. He is Xhosa. He is an entrepreneur with a small business and loves his country. He has been a victim of crime, but he has more optimism than those on this thread do. Maybe he has to in order to keep doing what he does, since he has so much determination to succeed. I know that as a Black South African, the type of business he is involved with makes it extremely difficult for him to break through that glass ceiling, since it is still very much run by White SAs.

Haven’t been back as trying to fit in some last minute Christmas stuff before we too are engulfed my Omicron.

To be clear, my OP didn’t mentioned violence. Initial responses heavily mentioned this and I of course posed related questions but I AM curious about day to day life and assumed other posters would be too. MN quite frequently has threads about life in the US or Australia and this was the best place I could think of to ask.

I’m not in touch with people I know that moved there and my colleague is pretty vague, but adamant she won’t ever move back. She hopes to retire to New Zealand or Australia.

I am more than happy to hear about supermarket quirks, weird parking rules and general life of SA.

@YanTanTetheraPetheraPimp

My dh’s great aunt (87) lived in SA for 67 years, with her son and DIL. They had a ‘safe room’ but she had recently fractured her hip and couldn’t move quickly when 4 men broke in. They shot dead her son, raped her and her DIL multiple times. Great Aunt D died of shock 3 days later. Utterly indescribably evil people.

I am so sorry, that’s tragic and heartbreaking.

Four way stops.

@FranklySonImTheGaffer

I'd be very interested to know how things are day to day there, but to ask the question you have to acknowledge one answer isn't going to cover everything because people's location / finances / relationship etc changes their experiences.

I've never been to SA but I'd like to go.

The only info I have is from a friend who moved here. She was brought up rurally but moved to live in a city when she met her husband. She felt the city was unsafe and she wasn't happy to bring children up there. Apparently the crime rate was high in her area and once it effected her (people attempted to break in to her house but fled when her husband fired a gun) they moved to the UK.

On the other side of that, her entire family is still there, living rurally where she was brought up and are very happy. My understanding is they aren't wealthy by any means but aren't struggling and have no intention of leaving as they like their lives there.

I'm not sure of gun laws etc in SA but from what she's said id assume they are lax therefore the dangers associated with being a victim of crime there are increased in the same way they are through most of America so of course a lot of people feel safer in the UK - guns are pretty rare here so it's one less thing to worry about.

As with everywhere though, id think there are places you'd be perfectly safe and others you would definitely avoid. It's just a shame on this thread that it's mostly just the negatives that get posted.

Unfortunately the negatives tend to outweigh the positives in SA. We had wonderful friends, a beautiful home, large swimming pool, excellent schools, beaches 20 minutes away and vineyards 10 mins away but we never had complete piece of mind about our safety. We were very fortunate, we were not direct victims of any crime but everyone knew someone who had a story about senseless murders, assaults and rape. Women & children are the most vulnerable groups there. If you are going on holiday there, it’s a fantastic, beautiful place with so much to offer and it’s a tragedy that all that beautiful is soiled by the mindless & disgusting violence. I generally don’t agree with capital punishment but living there and hearing the appalling stories made me rethink that every day. Many black people we knew said that they were honestly safer under the old regime, which should never be the case.

This - couldn’t have put it better myself. Thank you 👏🏼

@Mummy195 100% couldn’t have put it better myself. Spot on

Dh used to work in SA on and off, and his co. once brought several of their SA staff to London for a conference/training.

At least one night out in central London was arranged, and dh said the SA staff were astonished to see so many people just walking around the streets after dark - something they just would never do at home. I forget whether they were from Johannesburg or Cape Town but I know J’burg certainly has a worse reputation.

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