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Original poster

Star Hobson verdict in

754 replies

Lougle · 14/12/2021 11:08

Savannah Brockhill Guilty of murder. Frankie Smith Guilty of causing or allowing death.

OP posts:
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6
danni0509 · 14/12/2021 22:26

He didn’t call her stupid in court though did he?

He said it used to be called (note the word USED) mentally retarded.

FYI they don’t use those terms anymore, I see an array of professionals for my own son with a learning disability, he goes to specialist school and it’s either learning disability, or intellectual disability, no one uses those kind of terms.

Star Hobson verdict in
danni0509 · 14/12/2021 22:28

@TheNamelessGirl

And your posts keep on being deleted so it’s not just me who has an issue with your choice of words.

🤦🏻‍♀️

FanGirlX · 14/12/2021 22:33

I 'm a pessimist. Frankie will have more children. Predators always find prey.

Perhaps social service will do their job and remove any future children from her. We can always hope.

Bagelsandbrie · 14/12/2021 22:36

I am surprised people seem to think removing future children from FS is preferable to some sort of forced contraception or sterilisation. How on earth is that fair to a child? To be brought into the world with everyone knowing they’re going to be placed in the care system before they’d even (potentially) arrived?

I agree there are some very iffy grounds about the whole idea of forced sterilisation but I do think if someone is involved in a child’s murder they forfeit their rights to have any more. It’s a pretty easy line to draw.

Original poster
Lougle · 14/12/2021 22:42

'Stupid' is just inflammatory and completely misses the fundamental complexity of learning disabilities. Children progress at different rates within a range of 'normal'. Children who exceed the 'normal' rate of progress are 'able' or 'gifted'. Children who do not progress as 'normal' may have a specific learning difficulty (SPLD) such as dyslexia or dyspraxia. These children usually have average or above average intelligence but need adaptations in their learning to allow them to make use of that intelligence to enable progress.

Children who have a general learning disability experience learning at a much lower level than 'normal'. They make less progress over time, so the gap between them and their same age peers widens over time. E.g. DD1 was around 18 months delayed at 3, so roughly ½ her chronological age. She's now working at around year 1 or 2 level for maths in year 11, so 9-10 years behind. But her skills are not uniformly delayed. Her sense of humour is quite good and she can notice alliteration in text, but her general reading is very weak and she is only reliable at reading short or familiar words. She has an amazing memory for facts about space. She can tell you all about gas giants and planets but she can't reliably tell you what happened today when she got upset. She can't interpret the intentions of other people in their behaviour. She can't rationally work through a tricky situation. She can point out every car model as you pass it and tell you all the features of her beloved Teslas.

The whole point is that you can't say 'IQ 70 so that means...' It's just a starting point. The Psychologist said that FS was 'not sophisticated' and wouldn't be able to game the system with regards psychological testing.

OP posts:
SafeMove · 14/12/2021 22:52

@TheNamelessGirl I am glad your posts are being deleted. You may think that you are coming across well because you can articulate yourself but you read as ignorant about the nuance of this subject and unable to grasp that other people can see that and disagree with you.

Maddison12 · 14/12/2021 23:09

@catinboots123 I don't read the Daily Mail, don't make assumptions about me that have no basis.

I have experience in male prisons in North East England, no gourmet food Hmm. But day dependant, there might be a hot breakfast (sausage, hash brown, beans etc) or a breakfast pack (small box of cereal, milk, tea bag, coffee sachet) there's normally always access to bread and fruit. Lunch could be a lunch pack (pre packed sandwich, biscuit, small pack of crisps) or a hot lunch. There's always a hot evening meal served at 5pm. Do you see where I'm going with this? Not exactly Michelin star but that's a lot more food per day than many people who aren't in prison can afford.

You said prison was the worst punishment, I said it isn't, why be so sarcastic and rude to me because I don't agree with you?

And yes, they do have (small) flat screen TVs (which they are charged a coupleof pounds a week for.) They also sit around in D.A.R.T groups, talking about all their problems. When Star, Arthur and all the other abused children that have had their lives cut short don't get to do anything now.

Prison isn't a nice place to be. And if you're a shoplifter or drug dealer then yes imo it is a punishment. But if you've murdered a child after a campaign of abuse, prison is getting off lightly. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it, same as you are.

FanGirlX · 14/12/2021 23:26

@Bagelsandbrie

I am surprised people seem to think removing future children from FS is preferable to some sort of forced contraception or sterilisation. How on earth is that fair to a child? To be brought into the world with everyone knowing they’re going to be placed in the care system before they’d even (potentially) arrived?

I agree there are some very iffy grounds about the whole idea of forced sterilisation but I do think if someone is involved in a child’s murder they forfeit their rights to have any more. It’s a pretty easy line to draw.

I agree but we don't have forced sterilisation in this country, do we? The state can remove future children from FS though.
JeffThePilot · 14/12/2021 23:50

@Bagelsandbrie

I do actually think the social workers in this case and Arthur’s case should be publicly held accountable. Possibly even charged with some sort of inability to prevent child cruelty when in a position of being able to do so. I don’t know, I just feel unless we start making these people really accountable for their actions personally nothing changes.
Do you know what would happen if social workers, already desperately struggling under caseloads three times the size they should be, would face criminal charges when parents kill their children?

You would have no social workers.

That’s what would change. You’d have nobody left to do the job at all.

JeffThePilot · 14/12/2021 23:57

@WonderfulYou

He did stand by. One phone call to social services, and back to his uni life. No, he didn't kill her. But he could have (and should have) done more. Since he was concerned enough to involve SS.

It’s not that easy though.
If SS said she’s not at danger what was he supposed to do - break in to the house and kidnap her?

Even the extended family and friends were helpless. I read that the grandfather posted a FB video showing the bruises because they were at a loss of what else to do.

In this situation the father and rest of the family and friends didn’t turn a blind eye. It was the two women who did this and she was let down further by SS.

He had legal PR. He could legally have taken her. He could also have applied to the family courts for an urgent hearing for a child arrangements order.

The extended family may have been helpless, but as a parent he was not.

catinboots123 · 15/12/2021 03:52

@Maddison12 so are you saying that people in prison for murder shouldn't have access to food?

What would you deem an acceptable alternative to prison?

Original poster
Lougle · 15/12/2021 06:33

I've just read that Star's grandfather (who had tried to raise the alarm and had even posted publicly on Facebook with pictures of Star to raise his concerns) committed suicide on Frankie's birthday last year. He sent her a card saying "You look after yourself and I'll look after your baby." How awful to be in that situation.

OP posts:
Badnightguaranteed · 15/12/2021 06:43

That’s a different grandfather.
It was Frankie’s grandfather who raised the alarm and made the Facebook post. Thé one who killed himself was Frankie’s father.
During the trial Frankie mentioned a couple of times that the reason she thought the cruel parenting she’d displayed (shouting loudly at the baby to wake her for example) was ok, was because that’s what her own father had done to her.

Bagelsandbrie · 15/12/2021 06:47

@JeffThePilot I’m not sure about that… I mean the police seem to face charges for things pretty frequently- for example, the two policemen in the news recently charged with taking photos of the two murdered sisters- and yet people still want to join the police. If people know they’re doing their jobs properly it shouldn’t put people off.

I’m not talking about minor mistakes - we all make them, and even within social work there are times mistakes will be made and that’s understandable especially with the workloads etc but in these sorts of cases (Arthur and Star etc) these aren’t just mistakes - it’s negligence and should be charged as such.

FallingStar21 · 15/12/2021 07:20

[quote Bagelsandbrie]@JeffThePilot I’m not sure about that… I mean the police seem to face charges for things pretty frequently- for example, the two policemen in the news recently charged with taking photos of the two murdered sisters- and yet people still want to join the police. If people know they’re doing their jobs properly it shouldn’t put people off.

I’m not talking about minor mistakes - we all make them, and even within social work there are times mistakes will be made and that’s understandable especially with the workloads etc but in these sorts of cases (Arthur and Star etc) these aren’t just mistakes - it’s negligence and should be charged as such.[/quote]
100% agree with this.

Also wondering if Arthir and Star's social workers are still employed as such?
If they are, shocking that they haven't hung their heads in shame and voluntarily resigned, or been immediately sacked. They should never work that job again.

artquejtion · 15/12/2021 07:24

[quote Bagelsandbrie]@JeffThePilot I’m not sure about that… I mean the police seem to face charges for things pretty frequently- for example, the two policemen in the news recently charged with taking photos of the two murdered sisters- and yet people still want to join the police. If people know they’re doing their jobs properly it shouldn’t put people off.

I’m not talking about minor mistakes - we all make them, and even within social work there are times mistakes will be made and that’s understandable especially with the workloads etc but in these sorts of cases (Arthur and Star etc) these aren’t just mistakes - it’s negligence and should be charged as such.[/quote]
Absolutely this !!

It's not like its some oversight on a financial audit or something.

lollipoprainbow · 15/12/2021 07:30

Another case in the news today a little girl called Ella rose murdered by her godmothers boyfriend. She was taken to hospital nine times with black eyes, bruising, damaged bowel etc and doctors thought she had a rare medical condition. When are lessons ever going to be learnt?? I despair.

LizBennet · 15/12/2021 07:46

@lollipoprainbow

Another case in the news today a little girl called Ella rose murdered by her godmothers boyfriend. She was taken to hospital nine times with black eyes, bruising, damaged bowel etc and doctors thought she had a rare medical condition. When are lessons ever going to be learnt?? I despair.
My God 😢 And the bastard only got 20 years for murdering her 😤
Malibuismysecrethome · 15/12/2021 07:49

The abusers are highly manipulative and are able to deceive health professionals and social workers.

The apologists on this thread for Star’s abusive mother for instance. The reports on her were paid for and instigated by her defence team and it has worked.

Perhaps there needs to be more community involvement and everyone watching out for these poor children.

Bagelsandbrie · 15/12/2021 07:54

Star Hobson babysitter criticises social services response www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-59660203

Bagelsandbrie · 15/12/2021 07:55

Meant to say in the bbc article above FS is said to have covered up bruises and even told the babysitter to hold Star a certain way when SS attended so they wouldn’t see her bruises or the extent of them.

LizBennet · 15/12/2021 07:58

To be honest FS's defence barrister had me feeling sorry for her. She obviously knows how to be cunning though doesn't she.

Malibuismysecrethome · 15/12/2021 07:59

How brave is Hollie Jones and she was only 18. She was the first to report her concerns. She states that SS rang and hour before and told the parent they were coming. How wrong is that to give them warning.

Bagelsandbrie · 15/12/2021 07:59

@Malibuismysecrethome

How brave is Hollie Jones and she was only 18. She was the first to report her concerns. She states that SS rang and hour before and told the parent they were coming. How wrong is that to give them warning.
Exactly. Why are they warning these people?!
LizBennet · 15/12/2021 08:01

Hollie was so brave for a young girl, so sad her efforts were in vain.