Star Hobson verdict in

[Lougle]

Savannah Brockhill Guilty of murder. Frankie Smith Guilty of causing or allowing death.

There is a girl at my dd's school who has the same kind of LD as Frankie Smith. She is usually lovely and kind but she can very easily be manipulated to join in bullying and she will do what people tell her to do. Later, she will realise it was wrong.

Some of you are so blinkered.

I followed the trial too, it’s very clear to me that FS is a very vulnerable young woman who was abused and manipulated by SB.

Frankie still doesn’t actually understand/grasp that her daughter is no longer alive - her grandfather David Fawcett has said that he speaks to her regularly in prison and she still talks about Star in the present tense.

Such a sad situation and I truly believe Star would still be alive and thriving if FS had never met SB

[quote Bagelsandbrie]@furbabymama87 that’s the thing isn’t it.. maybe it’s not actually about low IQ in the sense that you can be a good or a bad person and it has nothing to do with that. I think we have to be really careful when talking about people with learning disabilities and / or low IQs as if they’re automatically capable of doing this sort of thing due to being vulnerable to manipulation- because that’s just not true and it’s horribly discriminatory to the vast majority of people in this bracket (like my own son and others) who are empathetic, sweet natured and literally wouldn’t hurt a fly.[/quote]

See, you've got it all around the wrong way from where I sit. It's discriminatory to expect people with these kinds of difficulties to be resilient in the face of manipulative and coercive bullying. Can't you see that?

@KurtWildesChristmasNamechange

Halfway through the seven-week trial, Smith pleaded guilty to eight instances of child cruelty against Star between April to September 2020.

Also can I query why these 8 instances of child cruelty aren't being accounted for in her sentencing?

They probably will be. The jury won't have found her guilty on those counts because she's already plead guilty. The judge will take that- and all other factors- into account.

Child abuse cases really get to me and I'm not sure why. I just don't understand why people are so cruel and feel the need to literally physically hurt a defenceless child??

My SIL has a similar low IQ. She had a child, accepted she wouldn't be capable of full parenting and he is now fostered with a nearby family. So low IQ argument doesn't really work with me. She had the chance for Star to be looked after by her family full time but didn't take it.

I'm raging heartbroken and so so tired of all this cruelty.

@immersivereader

Tough one. She could have another child once out.

Really terrible situation all round.

She won't be allowed to keep that child in her care, though. It really is an awful situation. Poor Star to have been born in the middle of it.

@NoNamesAvailableAnymore that’s unbelievable I can’t believe that her family still speak to her

I'm sorry but the low iq is been given to much allowance. The way some posters are posting you would think that FS could barely function and didn't know right from wrong. Most people with iq in The MGLD range (especially in the higher end of the range) can function quite well with some support. Yes they need help with certain day to day things but they can do a hell of a lot by themselves, including working, going out with friends and taking care of themselves. They can be easily manipulated but they definitely know right from wrong. FS low iq obviously had some impact on her ability, but to believe that this can be used to excuse her actions entirely is wrong and in fact quite insulting to other people with similar disabilities. That poor child deserved better.

@Itsnotover

There is a girl at my dd's school who has the same kind of LD as Frankie Smith. She is usually lovely and kind but she can very easily be manipulated to join in bullying and she will do what people tell her to do. Later, she will realise it was wrong.

Some of you are so blinkered.

What you have just described can also happen to people with average, or above average intelligence too. There are no blinkers here, from what I've read. Just differences in opinion.

[quote Parsley1234]@NoNamesAvailableAnymore that’s unbelievable I can’t believe that her family still speak to her[/quote]
Her grandfather played a huge role in her upbringing, he stood up in court and said the Frankie he knew was a complete softy who wouldn’t hurt anyone. She was still playing with dolls aged 16. Nobody had any concerns regarding Frankie and Star before SB came into their lives.

What you have just described can also happen to people with average, or above average intelligence too. There are no blinkers here, from what I've read. Just differences in opinion.

Of course it can, and does! If having a low IQ is being paraded as in the media to be used as a almost a get out clause for child abuse and neglect, then I hate to think the message that's sending to some truly vile people who are abusing children as we speak.

@RubyFakeLips

That's an extremely good point.

Not one of us would have accepted that on our own dc, had they come back from gp or child care with that bruise.

Spot on.

My dc have had various injuries over the years and once, dh was walking with dd in a push chair she was about four.. Then he jogged and knocked something and the pushchair capsized and dd fell out onto her cheek and very quickly the most horrific bruise appeared. We were actually at a wedding it was awful and we immediately rang 111 and were able to get her checked out at a local hospital.

It's one thing saying parents have different standards for cleaning, hair brushing etc that can be judged but that bruise and the lack of proactively seeking medical attention after, should have been sending red flag alarm off.

Brockhill is an extremely dangerous thug, obviously, but I hope she never gets out and the sentencing is in line with her crime.

Of course it can, and does! If having a low IQ is being paraded as in the media to be used as a almost a get out clause for child abuse and neglect, then I hate to think the message that's sending to some truly vile people who are abusing children as we speak.

It’s not being paraded by the media, though. It’s the legal position in this case.

that’s unbelievable I can’t believe that her family still speak to her

I know, how shocking that her family might know and understand her better than a bunch of internet strangers.

What you have just described can also happen to people with average, or above average intelligence too.

Yes. And in those cases, the people concerned are more aware that what they doing is bad and they have more of a chance to refuse to be pressured - that is my whole point!

It is reported in the live court updates that she has admitted multiple counts of child cruelty.

I know she admitted in her testimony that there were several incidences she now sees as cruel or neglectful but says she didn't realise it at the time.

Someone else upthread has said that there were 8 counts of child cruelty that she admitted to and was found guilty of during this trial but I can't find any reporting on that, could you link to it please?

I more surprised by Brockhill support to be honest. One would have thought she has brought shame on the community?

It’s not being paraded by the media, though. It’s the legal position in this case

But it IS all over the media. Therefore it's easily accessible information that someone could use that kind of plea to their advantage down the line.

She certainly managed to go out on the piss, active social media, and had seemingly had no issues parenting Star before she met SB, but it's come in very handy now it comes to her being held accountable for her daughter's death. Very convenient.

Not to mention posters on her feeling sympathy for her which beggars belief quite honestly.

I can't bear to read the news reports.

What happened to Star's father?

[quote Unsure33]@AndARiverBeneathYourFeet

“ SS don't care as long as the kid is clothed and has a roof over their head.”

This is a generalisation and not true in all cases. Their priority is to keep a child with its mother. I know of a mother with similar iQ problems who has has two children taken into adoption because she was not caring for them and had a violent partner.Luckily no violence to the children though. I also know of another case where a young mother was told very clearly to get rid of her partner or her children would be taken into care. Luckily she listened eventually and they did follow up calls as well.[/quote]
Their priority should be giving the child a safe environment where they can grow up. I am absolutely sickened by the state of social services in this country and the amount of child cruelty we see around us.

Itsnotover, oh come on, she was a parent yet did nothing to protect her child. I agree my child who has a learning disability can be influenced. It doesn't mean she will be influenced to cause the death of her own child in the future. She doesn't have a nasty bone in her body, yet she's been on the receiving end of nastiness from children her own age who I suspect have normal IQ. You can't just put all people with learning disabilities in the same box and say they're all capable of terrible things and aren't accountable for their actions because some will be.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/14/star-hobson-murder-verdict-savannah-brockhill-frankie-smith

"Smith and Brockhill also filmed many acts of cruelty against Star, sending them to friends for their own amusement. Others were caught on CCTV.Brockhill sometimes edited the footage by adding dramatic music and captions. The women could be heard laughing as they filmed Star falling off a chair or down the stairs.

Brockhill admitted she found them funny, comparing them to clips on You’ve Been Framed.**

Halfway through the seven-week trial, Smith pleaded guilty to eight instances of child cruelty against Star between April to September 2020."

furbabymama87 exactly

@Drinkingallthewine this is what you were asking for re admitting to 8 counts of child cruelty.

@Nanny0gg

I can't bear to read the news reports.

What happened to Star's father?

Her father, Jordan buggered off to university, didn’t pay child support and then stole money from the crowd fund which was set up to buy benches for Star.