Why are the British so comfortable being overweight?

[lookforthespace]

When it seems there is a lot of chit chat about now 'oh, you've lost weight!' People obviously want to be slim. But they can't do it?

Yet so many people, including myself,
seem to fluctuate and remain overweight

Is there a psychological difference between us and Japan/South Korea? It is it just because those countries will outright tell you 'You are fat'. And it isn't seen as rude or impolite to say so

than the UK not / UK

@glimpsing, I am a size 8 too and if buying vintage clothes I need a size 12 for them to fit on the waist. I fit into teen clothing, and wear them.
I'm middle aged

@Lockdownbear I actually think SW especially does teach people about better management of food and encourages greater consumption of veg. It (and WW) definitely educated me on how much healthy stuff I could have in comparison with one chocolate bar, for instance.

I think the problem with sustainability is more because it's still quite far away from what a lot of people generally eat daily here. So after a while people fall off the wagon and go back to the oven pizzas, ready meals, burgers, crisps and snacks, alcohol etc.

@Zilla1 In asian countries, working mothers outsource a lot more of their childcare to third parties, whether its grandmothers, cram school, maids or childcare. in HK and Singapore, its common to have filipino maids and also grandmothers often do childcare, i was raised by my grandma. In South Korea, the cram schools go on till 9 pm (I imagine that this frees up time for mum, though the kids are sent there not to give mum a break!)

My mum worked till 11 pm everyday when I was a kid (but did not cook and clean and had 24/7 childcare from her MIL), so I am not sure actually if she was more overworked than my British MIL who was freelance wfh but also did childcare, cleaning, housework and cooking for 4 kids... My mum is an extreme example but for asian women who work less hours (most of them) but get the same kind of help with cooking/childcare from grandma, they would have more time to exercise. Indeed when my mum's hours improved due to seniority, she started going running regularly and is very slim now.

@glimpsing I really agree with the warnings. I e been trying to lose weight and get back to fitness recently at 52, and am constantly being told “ oh, don’t overdo it!” Etc etc. which is quite unlikely, believe me 🤣

No one encourages me nor comments on my progress. I think my being fat is more comfortable for others too.

[quote KirstenBlest]@glimpsing, I am a size 8 too and if buying vintage clothes I need a size 12 for them to fit on the waist. I fit into teen clothing, and wear them.
I'm middle aged[/quote]
I’m a modern size 16 but when buying 30s-40s clothing I need a 12. I think if you have a hippy figure you may wear smaller sizes in vintage clothing than modern as it all seems to be designed for boobs and tums nowadays.

@ImperfectPirouette

As PPs have said, there’s such a completely different attitude towards how size/weight are discussed with friends & family; general food culture; & the utter lack of vanity sizing in “thin” countries. There’s also none of the Marilyn Monroe was a size 16! business; no endless “BMI is completely useless”; no “I’m morbidly obese but healthy” (despite what my GP has told me & the fact I struggle to walk a few metres).

It is complex picture though: the UK has serious issues with food poverty & food deserts; ever more people having to access food banks; & a desperate lack of understanding of, & treatment for, disordered eating & eating disorders that cause people to be overweight & obese (some cases of bulimia & OSFED [formerly known as EDNOS]; & of course BED, which some ED services do not offer treatment for).

I had a semi- argument with some friends recently, one of whom is overweight but not bothered. Any mention of someone's weight is immediately classed as fat-shaming, and then there is all the guff about it being a personal choice, and just because you are thin then it doesn't mean you are healthy, (which I don't think is the same as being fat means you ARE healthy) and apparently the majority of people have health issues or bad genes which mean they are unable to lose weight. You are not allowed to say people lack will power or have absolutley no idea what a healthy diet looks like.

Interesting thread. I can't comment on the Far East but how and what we eat has changed massively over the last few decades. Just look at any TV programme from the 1970s and you can quite clearly see that there is a huge shift in the way people look nowadays. Top of the Pops is a good example in the younger age category. When I was at school there would be at most one or two chubby children in any one class. They really stood out as it was very much not the norm. We ate meals at mealtimes, snacks between meals didn't exist and portion sizes were far more modest than many children eat today. Adults did the same. There was no fast food, no takeaways and children went out to play. People didn't drink at home (except at Christmas) in the way that has become the norm now. It all starts at the root, and I would certainly agree that being overweight is a normal thing in many people's perception.

I think Britain is just going a bit crazy to be honest.
I don’t like it at all.

DH and I have spoken at length about moving ourselves and small DC abroad to escape it.

Weight is just one of the many examples where you’re no longer allowed to assign any responsibility or blame to anyone for their own actions. When doctors are forced to see the same patient with ‘knee pain’ 50 times a year but aren’t allowed to mention them being morbidly obese because the patient ‘doesn’t want to be fat shamed’ Well that’s a serious issue isn’t it?

1/10 people has a genuine reason and needs help and understanding.
9/10 are entitled excuse makers who need a kick up the bum and a bit of societal shame to make them take responsibility for themselves!

[quote onlychildhamster]@Zilla1 In asian countries, working mothers outsource a lot more of their childcare to third parties, whether its grandmothers, cram school, maids or childcare. in HK and Singapore, its common to have filipino maids and also grandmothers often do childcare, i was raised by my grandma. In South Korea, the cram schools go on till 9 pm (I imagine that this frees up time for mum, though the kids are sent there not to give mum a break!)

My mum worked till 11 pm everyday when I was a kid (but did not cook and clean and had 24/7 childcare from her MIL), so I am not sure actually if she was more overworked than my British MIL who was freelance wfh but also did childcare, cleaning, housework and cooking for 4 kids... My mum is an extreme example but for asian women who work less hours (most of them) but get the same kind of help with cooking/childcare from grandma, they would have more time to exercise. Indeed when my mum's hours improved due to seniority, she started going running regularly and is very slim now.[/quote]
Same in India. Women there who work f/t and earn a good wage don’t do housework / ironing / laundry, and sometimes not even the cooking as there’s a man or woman for everything. There’s also a much lower standard of cleanlieness there in that it is enough if it looks clean. Over here we need it to actually be clean too so you’d call out people who aren’t using washing up liquid / antibacterial spray / soap when doing laundry. It’s why so many get really stressed out when marrying UK based men or relocating here because women born here are expected to do it all.

@Ozanj

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_body_mass_index
Singapore; 23.7
Japan: 22.6 (startling 21.7 for women!)
South Korea:23.9
India: 21.9
CHina: 23.9

And UK?

UK: 27.3 (which is overweight)

Also junk food is crazy addictive and hunger inducing. If I buy a bag of Sensations I struggle to stop myself eating the whole bag, same with Ben & Jerry's, I just... keep going. If I have beige freezer food for dinner that I thought was cheap I end up snacking later so its a false economy. Toast and crumpets are my downfall too - whatever I make is never enough. I turn into a food demon looking around for the next tasty snack

I'm by no means an elaborate cook but something like a 50p chop, jacket potato (pence) and some broccoli (40p) and i dont reach for the snacks or eat again til the next day, so my shopping bill is actually cheaper.

But people see the £1 pizza or big bag of chicken nuggets and forget how hungry they are a couple of hours later.

I fit into teen clothing, and wear them.
I'm middle aged

@KirstenBlest, ooh where do you shop? I have nicked some jeans my DS has grown out of and bought more from the same range but that's about it.

@WouldBeGood, yes to this!

@JetRocket

I think Britain is just going a bit crazy to be honest. I don’t like it at all.

DH and I have spoken at length about moving ourselves and small DC abroad to escape it.

Weight is just one of the many examples where you’re no longer allowed to assign any responsibility or blame to anyone for their own actions. When doctors are forced to see the same patient with ‘knee pain’ 50 times a year but aren’t allowed to mention them being morbidly obese because the patient ‘doesn’t want to be fat shamed’ Well that’s a serious issue isn’t it?

1/10 people has a genuine reason and needs help and understanding.
9/10 are entitled excuse makers who need a kick up the bum and a bit of societal shame to make them take responsibility for themselves!

Well, maybe on the knee front. But the reality is a lot of people are overweight or obese, weight is hard to lose and in the mean time you still get health conditions.

Fat people often get fobbed off by doctors because trying someone to lose weight is an easy thing to do, but they might have a serious underlying condition (whether or not related to weight).

But why is it for a layperson to give a ‘fat’ person a kick up the backside? For me this is the crux of the issue. I do not buy for one moment, that the likes of Piers Morgan is remotely concerned about the health of someone like Tess Holiday ( using this as an easy example as he was all over the TV going on and on about it). It is a false narrative because it ignores mental health and how being berated for being overweight can actually make the problem worse, now don’t get me wrong a doctor voicing concerns over health due to excess weight is legitimate as a partner or close family members concern would be but strangers in the street or even a comment saying ‘oh you’ve got fat’ from a ‘well meaning’ family member or friend- how precisely is that helpful.

Anecdotally I dated a guy when I was a size 8/10 (so a bit bigger than my pre back to back pregnancy self) who used to pinch my stomach and go on and on about my weight with the same faux concern about my ‘health’ completely ignoring my mental health and the fact that at that moment in time I smoked . The fake health concern is disingenuous.

I’m a modern size 16 but when buying 30s-40s clothing I need a 12. I think if you have a hippy figure you may wear smaller sizes in vintage clothing than modern as it all seems to be designed for boobs and tums nowadays.

@Ozanj, curious...I'm not particularly hippy though. Measurements are about 35, 25, 35.

I was on holiday in Singapore and needed to buy some more pants as I had ran out. I am BMI 21. Held up the small ones and thought they would fit my primary aged child. Studied the medium ones, and the shop keeper was watching me and directed me to the large ones. I would be a small in the UK.

I have moved a lot in my time and have noticed the weight issue.

All countries that appear to have less of a problem than us have some things in common in my opinion.

Access to affordable domestic help with home cooking (Asia),

Understanding the connection between diet and good health.

Access to afforadable, seasonal food (few food deserts etc, look at the States and you see the results of food deserts - devastating).

Different attitude to snacks (1 billion pounds spent on crisps in 2019).

Healthy, basic food options available in poor areas for take out - osteria in Italy, street food in Asia etc. In the UK? Chip shop on the corner!

@Namechangetimes100 more like chinese, korean, japanese. the nhs advice is for all asians though!

People (particularly women) usually know if they're overweight and really aren't happy about it.

A lot of people do blame other health conditions, meds, or genetics though, when most of these just may make it a bit harder but people can still lose weight.

@Icenii Most white people's physique is bigger boned (genuinely) /larger than a Japanese etc person. I try not to be upset by it, it's just one of those things.

As they have smaller builds they are classed as riskily overweight/obese at a lower BMI.

@Namechangetimes100

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t people of south East Asian heritage naturally more petite anyway, their BMI normal range is lower than for other ethnic groups? So surely Nature plays a role here too?

www.diabetes.co.uk/south-asian/bmi-values-for-south-asians.html

I’m a now naturally slim person and I really dislike threads like this because it’s more fat shaming and othering of ‘fat’ people, like it’s the worse thing in life you can possibly be. Of course a healthy BMI is important (it’s an outdated and arbitrary measure of a ‘healthy’ weight anyway) but there are so many individual factors that contribute to obesity, socio economic (fact is convenience food is cheap), we have an eat and run culture (France for instance has 2 hr lunch breaks and meals are to be savoured), we have a finish everything on your plate culture, a diet industry worth billions that reinforces unhealthy eating habits, huge pressure to have the constantly changing perfect figure (again unhealthy eating habits), an all or nothing societal mentality, generational bad habits, not enough emphasis on food as nutrition and healthy cooking with cheap ingredients in school, and the stigmatising of those perceived to be fat (i for instance have been bullied my whole life for my weight and I’ve never been more than 9.5 stone at 5’3 a large size 10) the stigma is social but it’s medical too.

I agree with you. Mumsnet is terrible for these threads and bashing people for being fat, unstylish, unhealthy etc.

Also I'm probably a similar size to you but if I visited Japan for example I'm sure I would feel huge in comparison with Japanese women, especially at 5ft 8. Genetics must play a huge part in this.

I don't agree with fat shaming, though. I think it is the opposite of encouraging. People get embarrassed to exercise or address their diet. Exercise and healthy eating need to be normalised. No one should really comment if they see an overweight person running or at the gym- they are as in need of it as a thinner more visually muscled person.

The trouble is capitalism. Gyms want to sell a particular image, so does the fashion industry, so does the food industry. They want people to associate their product with aspiration. If we all could achieve fantastic health and fitness by ourselves without buying anything they would lose a lot of business.

Vintage clothing is irrelevant. Frames used to be much smaller. My gran who got fat in her old age could still fit into small sizes because she had such a tiny frame.

Fat people know they're fat. Telling them doesn't make them lose weight. It just makes them feel bad and stay inside more.

Obesity has loads of causes, it's very complex. Cost, convenience and quality of food. Emotional problems leading to comfort eating because as a culture we can't express our feelings. A very varied diet including lots of non-native dishes. A working class culture that perceives healthy food to be for richer people, even when they're affordable. Rainy weather. Poor uptake of sports and poor infrastructure for active transport like walking and cycling. More women working or just not wanting to spend hours cooking every day.

I think we've been fucked over an obesogenic environment combined with decades of faddy diets that have made us dysfunctional about food and confused about what, how and how much to eat.