Why are the British so comfortable being overweight?

[lookforthespace]

When it seems there is a lot of chit chat about now 'oh, you've lost weight!' People obviously want to be slim. But they can't do it?

Yet so many people, including myself,
seem to fluctuate and remain overweight

Is there a psychological difference between us and Japan/South Korea? It is it just because those countries will outright tell you 'You are fat'. And it isn't seen as rude or impolite to say so

I watched a program all about food habits and weight in Texas a few years ago. Honestly we're not so bad in the UK.

There are also studies that show the microbiome (community of bacteria in the gut) give people a predisposition to obesity or malnutrition. Some guts are better at accessing calories stored in food. Two kids eating the same diet and with the same activity level might put on weight at different rates. It is very complicated.

@Namechangetimes100

How can you not see that as a mental health issue though @Starcup, granted it’s not the same nature as bipolar or schizophrenia but then there is some mental process (that’s probably a learned response from childhood) that is actively choosing to deprioritise long term health over short term satisfaction.

I actually think the genetic argument though is a weak one, yes some people have marginally slower metabolisms but it’s not by a huge amount. Lots of studies have shown that, i think channel 4 even did a documentary where some overweight people were convinced they undereat compared to their slim peers/ friends and have ‘slow’ metabolisms but it was basically perception and they were burning more calories just by being than their slim counter parts**

You can’t use MH as the reason every person is obese. If that was the case, you could attribute anything to MH issues and I mean anything.

By the same reasoning, criminals should be forgiven for their crimes as they must have MH issues. You could literally use that as an excuse for anything and everything.

Yes some people have MH issues and that could be the reason for them but it’s certainly not the case for everyone.

Well we’ll have to agree to disagree about the genetic component.

I thought that was vanity sizing?

I think it's called making reasonable adjustments for the size of the population. People haven't got larger because sizes have got bigger, it's the other way round.

It would be rather pointless most shops only going up to a size ten if the average customer is a size 16.

@Dentistlakes

It’s diet mostly. Eating processed junk makes you crave more processed junk. If you eat healthy unprocessed foods then your appetite is satisfied and you don’t need to snack. I cut out all processed food for a year and then had a Chinese takeaway. The cravings were insane! I was starving within half an hour of eating it. Same with sweets, chocolate and biscuits. I don’t believe people are fat due to laziness, but the constant cycle of junk, cravings, more junk etc.

I do find that exercise helps too. However different sorts of exercise do different things. If you do MAFF training the body gets more efficient at burning fat. Once you are used to it exercising fasted is much easier. So with that sort of increased efficiency you don't get the cravings as your body can easily switch over into burning fat. For someone unused to this they get hunger pangs before the body starts to burn fat. So I can actually eat sugar and pasta now without increased cravings whereas I couldn't before and had to carb restrict. Equally with the running I do I easily use up the stored glycogen and fat. Before low carb diets worked for me. Now it doesn't make that much difference. If I over eat I can burn the excess off pretty quickly by doing a run or two fasted. I don't get uncontrollable hunger pangs.

[quote onlychildhamster]@CanIPleaseHaveOne My DH's mum has 4 children and has never owned a car/knows how to drive. She always cooked everything from scratch and gets takeaway a few times a year. She also lives in London but not in a tower block, in a victorian terrace. She takes the bus to the Aldi/Lidl armed with a trolley and she has always done that including when her kids were tiny. My DH said he was carrying bags of shopping from the youngest age!

But the difference is, she keeps kosher, so esp when her kids were tiny, there weren't that many kosher restaurants/offerings as there are now. Certainly even now most are unaffordable. She became pescetarian because there wasn't even space in her kitchen to keep meat and milk separate and she couldn't afford kosher meat. She also grew up in a middle class family where daily sit down home cooked meals with plenty of conversation are a religion. Poverty isn't just about the lack of possessions/time i.e. lack of car, lack of space etc, its also about learned habits. Someone who has always been poor and whose mum always fed them £2 Sam's fried chicken is going to take different choices to my MIL, even if they may both have the same amount of disposable income (my MIL earns below full time minimum wage but she does own a house). my MIL's children are also very different; they mostly don't eat unhealthy food either as they don't like it. My DH is the only one who eats meat.[/quote]
I love that your husbands mum was able to achieve that. I really do.
But I am weary of saying "well if she can do it so can they".

We have inter generational poverty, gangs on estates, huge drug problem, social behaviours and expectations that have radically changes, no police on the streets, no phones on the streets anymore, industrialized food industry selling mixes of salt, sugar and flour, and calling it chicken.

It is so hard for people to climb out of that. In my opinion harder than before for many, many reasons.

So I won't judge. But I will celebrate you mil!

Social norms definitely play a big part. I don't think British people are comfortable being overweight but because so many people are, there isn't the same pressure to do something about it that you find in other places.

This, mostly.
Yes availability and price of calorific foods plays a role too, but it is still mostly about monitoring your calorie intake. And there are plenty of studies showing that if everybody around you is overweight, you are much more likely to gain weight as well. One study found that a person's chance of becoming obese increased by 57 percent if that person's close friend became obese.

I'm from Eastern Europe and being slim and good looking is extremely important for women (not so much for men, mind). When I first visited England (20+ years ago), I was quite surprised how many overweight young women I saw, and how they all seemed to be totally fine with it and comfortable in their skin. On the one hand, of course it's nice to be confident. But on the other, clearly they did not have the same pressure to be slim and fit as me and my friends.

@EnidFrighten

There are also studies that show the microbiome (community of bacteria in the gut) give people a predisposition to obesity or malnutrition. Some guts are better at accessing calories stored in food. Two kids eating the same diet and with the same activity level might put on weight at different rates. It is very complicated.

And one of the things that affects gut biome is your diet. Sweeteners, artificial additives and poor range of foods (ie not eating a wide range of differ foods) all harm the gut biome.

@ElftonWednesday

I thought that was vanity sizing?

I think it's called making reasonable adjustments for the size of the population. People haven't got larger because sizes have got bigger, it's the other way round.

It would be rather pointless most shops only going up to a size ten if the average customer is a size 16.

I think it might work both ways, though. As bigger sizes are then normalised. As I said I feel puny at a size 8 as where I shop in the high street there aren't many. But I know I am not puny. I'm just the same size as I was as a young adult. I have strength and muscle definition too. It's just the sizes that are bigger than when I was younger. I'm 5 ft 7 as well so not particularly short.

[quote julieca]@CanIPleaseHaveOne there is a lot of research about how in most places in Britain, making the unhealthy choice is the much easier one.
I have lived abroad where the healthy choice is the easy one i.e. local cafe with cheap healthy food, corner shop with lots of fresh fruit and veg. You had to travel to but highly processed foods and really hunt to find a ready meal.
If we lived in a healthy country, the healthy choices would be the easy ones.[/quote]
Agree very much with this.

@sparklemagicsnow

I don't think 'the British' are! I don't know of any women that are overweight that are happy and comfortable about it, truly. My friends and I have over the years constantly been on diets, Healthy eating stages, exercise regimes. All with the aim of losing weight especially after children.

I have been overweight, obese, and a healthy weight. People do treat you differently depending on your size. There's nothing comfortable about that!

There have been several reports in recent years showing that the UK is the most obese country in Western Europe:

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/nov/10/uk-most-obese-country-in-western-europe-oecd-report-finds

I had a semi- argument with some friends recently, one of whom is overweight but not bothered. Any mention of someone's weight is immediately classed as fat-shaming, and then there is all the guff about it being a personal choice, and just because you are thin then it doesn't mean you are healthy

What was the nature of the argument? I'm assuming you were accused of fat-shaming. But who wants to be told by a friend that they're overweight, like it's going to be news to them. Anyone would give that short shrift.

@ElftonWednesday its not junk (except I think a lot of the chinese takeaways here neglect to tell their customers that 1 dish is meant to be shared by a family and they add too much oil) but as a chinese person, my family of 4 (2 adults, 2 daughters) would have shared that when I was a kid, along with a soup. More rice but rice in itself doesn't have many calories, esp when you are a growing kid. Our daily dinner- cashew chicken with ginger and spring onion, cabbage soup, broccoli, and rice. 3 dishes with a small bowl of rice each. Lunch was a small portion of noodles generally. No breakfast generally (maybe a small bun).

I have found kids tend to be much fussier eaters in the UK. Kids seem to eat more calorific carb heavy beige foods than in some other countries. Bad early habits of chips/pizza/pasta and hot dogs are quite hard to break.

@EnidFrighten that's a good point, the gut microbiome is also influenced by what we eat and how food is processed- so a diet high in processed food has more calories, less nutrients and less diversity in the microbiome.

Lots of traditional foods are good for the gut microbiome, and messing around with it and eating crap all the time alters it and we become fatter (as well as greater risk of things like bowel cancer).

I don't eat bacon or any processed meats like sausages except once in a blue moon now, no cheap meat, lots of pulses, I try to eat green veggies every day- but I spend a lot of money on food per week trying to do this- it's isn't just adding a few lentils, it's a whole lifestyle change away from processed food and not very nutritious food.

I think it’s because a lot of the British diet is carbs, often not enough protein and definitely not enough fruit and veg.
I’ve read lots of threads on mumsnet about what people are eating for dinner and the meals sound so carby.
It’s often the same when you go out for dinner in the UK, there can be a distinct lack of veg on the plate.

@ElftonWednesday my DH is gobsmacked when he eats with my family back home. They still order the same amount of food even though we are now adults plus one westerner. He gets very little food hehe but thats probably no bad thing.

I'm from Eastern Europe and being slim and good looking is extremely important for women (not so much for men, mind). When I first visited England (20+ years ago), I was quite surprised how many overweight young women I saw, and how they all seemed to be totally fine with it and comfortable in their skin. On the one hand, of course it's nice to be confident. But on the other, clearly they did not have the same pressure to be slim and fit as me and my friends.

Yes exactly. I'm actually really glad that it is more acceptable to be fat here - or not even fat, just not extremely slender, than in other more patriarchal countries. Let's not emulate them.

I know a young mother struggling with money. She tends to spend her days eating biscuits whilst looking after her young children. It staves off her hunger / keeps her going and a packet of value biscuits can be 20pence from Lidl's or aldi

This is a real problem.

@oneglassandpuzzled

I think a lot of people who are overweight in the UK live in communities where they see themselves reflected.

When I go (on v. rare occasions) to somewhere like Holland Park or Kensington or central Paris, I feel like a heifer. My BMI is actually just under 21.

This is pretty spot on, I think.

I live in Manhattan - actually in NYC's skinniest zip code. I'm 5'3 and 9st8 and I am on the large side here. Often the biggest person in meetings, def one of the biggest mums at daycare. Everyone is just skinny - I think I only know about 3 people over a UK14. There's a lot of societal pressure to be thin and fit - for both men and women.

I think the main things are:

• Everyone drinks a lot less and alcohol is viewed as being fattening.
• You have to walk everywhere so there's a lot of exercise in everyday life.
• No one cooks, but it's cheap and easy to buy healthy food and get healthy take-aways.
• Not clearing your plate is socially acceptable. As is asking for a doggie bag.
• Exercise is a social thing. I'll often go to a 7am spin class with a friend and we'll catch up going to and from.
• It's a class thing - you ain't fitting into anything from Saks if you're a size 16. There used to be a saying about being a "Barney's 6" which means a small 6 rather than an "Old Navy 6" which is vanity sized.
• It's socially acceptable to be on a diet. People trade tips on trainers and nutritionists that have worked for them. I feel like in the UK it's all "You're beautiful as you are BBZ x". As opposed to "I'll give you Natalia's number. She got me from a 4 to a 0."
• For women - excessive pregnancy weight gain is frowned upon like smoking when you're pregnant. The nurses weigh you at every appointment and expected weight gain is 25-35lbs with a healthy BMI to start. You will get dire warnings if you gain too much or too little.
• There's an expectation that you go back to pre-pregnancy weight and clothes reasonably quickly. The idea of chucking out your (expensive) wardrobe for "mum clothes" is unheard of. The idea of having a different body after your baby just doesn't compute with most of the mums I know.

I could write loads more, but I'll stop for now .

I think drinking plays a lrage part in it and the UK is in the top 5 in the world for binge drinking - in fact I think it ay be #2 (behind Australia).

There are a lot of calories in alcohol and certainly a lot in the snacks eaten while drinking (bags of crisps) and after - look at most takeaway vans after the pubs close.

I do not think the influence of alcohol should be underestimated as a link. Again, countries where obesity rates are lower drink less alcohol too. Has anyone ever seen a drunk Italian woman?

Something I like about my UK upbringing was that I was encouraged to not judge others. Now I know that's not universal here but even critical people are definitely encouraged to veil it: many British are masters of passive aggression😂
After travelling and living abroad I was glad to return to the UK for the lack of loud, overt judgement.

I don’t think weight is anyone else’s business. No one lacks awareness of their size and certainly aren’t helped by anyone else’s comments. I weigh less than 90lbs (through illness) and choose not to discuss my medical history so most wouldn’t know why. The amount of comments I get is unbelievable. It seems far more socially acceptable to comment on being slim that overweight, fat shaming has a name, there isn’t one for the underweight. I’ve even had two people contact my husband to privately make him aware of how dangerously thin I am, like he didn’t notice!

The last time I was back in the UK a couple years ago, pre-Covid the most noticeable difference to where I come from was the number of people walking around filling their faces with food, and the astounding number of possibilities for buying cheap on the go food. Where I live it is just not done to walk around eating or drinking and there are fewer take away foods sold. The imploring ads to 'treat yourself' to this or that were everywhere and I can totally understand it would be difficult to resist that temptation.

I grew up in another European country and I think school lunches/the packed lunch culture has a lot to do with it here as it sets so many on the path of eating carb-heavy food from childhood. In the country I grew up in, everyone got a free school lunch regardless of income and you were not allowed to bring your own food to school at all. The meals were all good quality and quite healthy - hot meals including lots of vegetables, always a side salad and water or milk to drink. No fizzy drinks or juices allowed on site at my primary school at all. We weren't really given a choice about eating it or not which wasn't always pleasant as a child but actually most kids end up trying things they might not otherwise have and get used to the different tastes and textures of vegetables in particular.

Even after nearly 20 years here in the UK I find the idea of having a sandwich with a bag of crisps for lunch quite strange. Crisps were considered a treat food in my family and eaten rarely. Same with all the multi-packs of "treat size" chocolate and sweets which seem to be geared towards daily consumption and not just special treats.

Add to that the fact that junk food is generally cheap, easy and tasty, it's not hard to see why most of us find it hard to resist.