Has anyone else had one of these religious letters through the post

[Jackthementalkitten]

Apologies if this has been done/ posted about before. I received this letter through the post today- from the Jehovah’s witnesses. With covid I’m assuming it’s how there communicating with people. I was really surprised that it was hand written, must take hours too write those out, price of stamps - I dread too think. Has anybody else received one? No disrespect, I’m very happy with my own faith, it’s gone in the bin.

A few years ago someone leaked a cartoon they show to kids teaching them to tell their friends with same sex parents that gay people can't go to heaven. It's sick.

@21dolly

Your response tells me all I need to know to be honest, complete refusal to engage or even acknowledge that this is an issue.

There's no refusal to engage or acknowledge anything. You're trying to tell me there's a two witness rule (which I've literally never heard about in my life even though I know all of the 'rules') and I'm telling you that's not the case. Maybe that's how a certain congregation decided to deal with a situation but that is not a rule.

I imagine that's the same response I'd get if I spoke to JWs in real life about this -

Maybe. And this is just a wild guess. It's because they'd be telling you the truth...?
Again, feel free to do your own research on the JW website or rather, speak to a JW in real life

so I'll have to rely on news and documentaries for my information.

You do that👍 I can see it's working out nicely for you

www.jw-media.org/releases/bg_molestation.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20021201090350/www.jw-media.org/releases/bg_molestation.htm From the JW website:

When any one of Jehovah's Witnesses is accused of an act of child abuse, the local congregation elders are expected to investigate. Two elders meet separately with the accused and the accuser to see what each says on the matter. If the accused denies the charge, the two elders may arrange for him and the victim to restate their position in each other's presence, with elders also there. If during that meeting the accused still denies the charges and there are no others who can substantiate them, the elders cannot take action within the congregation at that time. Why not? As a Bible-based organization, we must adhere to what the Scriptures say, namely, "No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin . . . At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good." (Deuteronomy 19:15) Jesus reaffirmed this principle as recorded at Matthew 18:15-17. However, if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony may be deemed sufficient to take action.

I'm an ex JW, half of my family are ex JW's, the other half are still witnesses who will no longer associate with us (but were happy to attend one of our ex JW funerals and turn the whole thing into a proselytising ceremony, dead relative in questions name or life wasn't even mentioned!)

It's a cult, there are no two ways about it. They're brainwashed, and frankly dangerous poison.

Seeking unbiased information on the JW website is a hilarious suggestion.

(Sorry to derail a bit, couldn't help myself after reading some of the comments)

Yep got a photocopy of a hand written letter. It didn’t even make much sense.

I used to get knocks and letters all the time when I lived on the main road - no matter what we said and even getting a JW family member involved. We haven't had any since I've moved a few miles away. Not sure why.

It's all done with good intentions and can simply be put in the bin if you're not interested!

Intent can be important to consider, but it's not as important as impact.

While JWs and similar are meant to stop visiting and sending literature if asked, that's not always the case and this can cause harm, particularly to those with religion-related trauma.

All institutions have the tendency for corruption. JWs and similar are well known for it in some areas where shunning and similar disciplinary measures and concerning in-house takes on abuse have been widely spoken about, though that's true of so many other groups. I'm not sure how applicable those are to the UK, like many things within these groups, there can be a vast difference in policies by location (and the larger US ones tend to be among the most vile).

Most Christian denominations believe the bible is literal.

I'm not sure this is true, though that's likely hard to quanitfy with tens of thousands of denominations. Most of the loudest/most political ones say they are, that's probably true, but many of them will still claim at least parts are metaphorical.

There are other denominations where most if not all of the Bible is taken as allegory and/or the creation of men trying to represent their ideas of divinity. Even within literalist-proclaiming denominations, there are often groups with a deconstructionist view of the texts - including Mormons (Dan McClellan is well known for his academic discussions on the texts, including on textual misuse/inconsistencies around biblical literalism).

Why don't they type and print out the letters? They'd get loads more fine that way. Why handwritten?

also received one this very week. Straight into the bin. But i wondered if the person writing had cramp in their wrist like I get after so many years of typing.

@treesandweeds

Why don't they type and print out the letters? They'd get loads more fine that way. Why handwritten?

Probably to trick you into thinking it’s a personal letter from a friend and not junk mail, therefore more likely to open and read.

@BiBabbles

I used to get knocks and letters all the time when I lived on the main road - no matter what we said and even getting a JW family member involved. We haven't had any since I've moved a few miles away. Not sure why.

It's all done with good intentions and can simply be put in the bin if you're not interested!

Intent can be important to consider, but it's not as important as impact.

While JWs and similar are meant to stop visiting and sending literature if asked, that's not always the case and this can cause harm, particularly to those with religion-related trauma.

All institutions have the tendency for corruption. JWs and similar are well known for it in some areas where shunning and similar disciplinary measures and concerning in-house takes on abuse have been widely spoken about, though that's true of so many other groups. I'm not sure how applicable those are to the UK, like many things within these groups, there can be a vast difference in policies by location (and the larger US ones tend to be among the most vile).

Most Christian denominations believe the bible is literal.

I'm not sure this is true, though that's likely hard to quanitfy with tens of thousands of denominations. Most of the loudest/most political ones say they are, that's probably true, but many of them will still claim at least parts are metaphorical.

There are other denominations where most if not all of the Bible is taken as allegory and/or the creation of men trying to represent their ideas of divinity. Even within literalist-proclaiming denominations, there are often groups with a deconstructionist view of the texts - including Mormons (Dan McClellan is well known for his academic discussions on the texts, including on textual misuse/inconsistencies around biblical literalism).

Mormons believe the bible to be literal "as far as it is translated correctly", there are more nuanced members who don't believe it to be, but the Mormon doctrine is it is literal. The flood for example is a sign of the baptism of the world, it had to have happened and the entire world flooded as it's symbolic of its baptism.

I did say most, not all, as in the vast majority of people who make up Christianity. Of course, they also will use different versions of the bible too.

@mordinvasnormandy the only legitimate JW site is https://www.jw.org/en/

Nice try though

[quote 21dolly]@mordinvasnormandy the only legitimate JW site is [[https://www.jw.org/en]]/

Nice try though[/quote]
www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/world/updated-website/

Three websites managed by the Witnesses will be consolidated into just one official website—www.jw.org. The other two, www.watchtower.org and www.jw-media.org, will be discontinued.

It was an official JW website at the time the article was written. Nice try though.

And do you think any previous website of JWs is still going to be up asking for donations?

I'm not a JW either, I was raised as one and the way people talk about the religion is really out of order. Some terrorists that happen to be Muslim say that they did it because Allah told them too. Does that mean Islam breeds terrorists or something? No. Where does Islam actively encourage people to kill others for whatever reason? Nowhere. But please continue basing a WHOLE religion off of someone's experience. It's very narrow minded to take all your information from the media but carry on

@21dolly

And do you think any previous website of JWs is still going to be up asking for donations?

I'm not a JW either, I was raised as one and the way people talk about the religion is really out of order. Some terrorists that happen to be Muslim say that they did it because Allah told them too. Does that mean Islam breeds terrorists or something? No. Where does Islam actively encourage people to kill others for whatever reason? Nowhere. But please continue basing a WHOLE religion off of someone's experience. It's very narrow minded to take all your information from the media but carry on

Isn't it more narrow minded to insist that the ONLY place is to get any information about the religion is its own website?

What does it say on JW.org about how child abuse is in fact dealt with if the two witness rule is a complete myth as you say? had a quick look but could see anything.

I ask again, is it standard practice to immediately report to the police any allegations? Or is there an internal procedure carried out by elders? I ask as you said earlier you know ALL the rules.

@21dolly

And do you think any previous website of JWs is still going to be up asking for donations?

I'm not a JW either, I was raised as one and the way people talk about the religion is really out of order. Some terrorists that happen to be Muslim say that they did it because Allah told them too. Does that mean Islam breeds terrorists or something? No. Where does Islam actively encourage people to kill others for whatever reason? Nowhere. But please continue basing a WHOLE religion off of someone's experience. It's very narrow minded to take all your information from the media but carry on

That's the week archieve website that's asking for donations, not the JW site. It quite clearly states on the current JW site that jw-media.org was run by them. The article is from the JW office of public information. But you seem determined to ignore any evidence that paints the organisation in a bad light.

Yes this time last year... Our surname is foreign and they'd sent it in that language... I can't read the language so it took quite some googling to work out it could go in the bin!

@21dolly

And do you think any previous website of JWs is still going to be up asking for donations?

I'm not a JW either, I was raised as one and the way people talk about the religion is really out of order. Some terrorists that happen to be Muslim say that they did it because Allah told them too. Does that mean Islam breeds terrorists or something? No. Where does Islam actively encourage people to kill others for whatever reason? Nowhere. But please continue basing a WHOLE religion off of someone's experience. It's very narrow minded to take all your information from the media but carry on

You point raises a interesting discussion point. Does Islam teach about suicide bombing and can it be to blame for extremists? Of course the short answer is no. The full answer is more complicated.

Many high demand religions require obedience and that includes obedience to leaders. This means people are taught to not question what they are taught. Sometimes it's "harmless" for example Mormons may say, we don't drink tea and coffee and when questioned why specifically those things they will often say they dint know, that's what the Lord defined and they want to obey.

This thinking can apply to how scripture is interpreted too. So when you take those people who are told to believe and not question then it makes them more malleable.

For example, to use Mormons again, they were told to vote for proposition 8 in the US to stop gay marriage and "protect the family". They were encouraged to protest. You see this in evangelical and catholic religions where they will campaign against pro choice. Actually, if you take a individual form those groups and talk to them, they will just repeat the same arguments over and over, even if they don't make sense and ignore other evidence and perspective. It's creates a black and white thinking, where they are right and everyone else is wrong/evil. These examples can be problematic enough.

However, it also demonstrates that these teachings can mean people are more open to more extreme acts. If someone told you to kill someone it's likely none of us will, but it you are groomed to believe that only you have the truth and that everyone else is controlled by the devil than it's creates less empathy for other peoples perspectives, like I'm the other examples.

If you are then told that the Lord has a great work to do and that it's better than a few die than the world be destroyed by these evil people, then you have the starts of potential extremist behaviour. Many people believe so strongly than they will do what they are told. They believe so convincingly and completely of what will happen to them after this life, they will do what they are told "God" wants and needs them to do.

Essentially high demand religions are the catalyst for extremist behaviour because they create a them and us narrative and they rely on obedience. If the religion didn't exist then the extreme behaviour wouldn't exist. But equally, the religion itself is not the cause of the extreme behaviour, it's just a catalyst.

Religion can do a lot of good and it can equally do a lot of harm.

We can see it in this thread where because someone hasn't experienced that same thing in their religion (or noticed it) then they don't think it's exists. It's the defence of the religion at the denial of other people's experiences.

Like I say, religion can bring peace, community, happiness, charity, belonging, answers etc to people, but not everyone's experience is the same and no religion is prefect.

[quote 21dolly]@mordinvasnormandy the only legitimate JW site is [[https://www.jw.org/en]]/

Nice try though[/quote]
@21dolly

I had a look at that website. It says that gay people can and should change their sexuality, and that women should be subservient to their husbands. And they teach that disguising shit to kids.

Looks like I might be the only person to write back!
Treat this is alight reading...

Actually I am an atheist and view the world with an unusually high enthusiasm for the science in everything - I'm a physicist (fundamentally in the way I look at everything in life) - worked on a particle accelerator, on mass spectrometer development, all kinds etc but I have taken the time to try and talk to the JW's who have called at the door (and this is why they keep coming back!) - I don't mind the conversations - my issues with them are about the misinformation and twisted views about evolution, science and even about Buddhist ideas which I do happen to know something about.

In science a scientific "theory" actually carries more weight and significance than a "law" but the everyday use of the words are usually understood the other way around - a theory sounds far more tentative than a law (e.g. my "theory" is that it's next door's dog that is cr*pping on our lawn) - hence my issue with the things they say about evolution. In truth I think they are often misguided, ill informed, vulnerable and incapable of determining facts from fiction on many issues. I have read about the way the JW's work and, like scientology, the way members are encouraged to divorce themselves from friends, family and non-believers but also rejected when when they challenge or stray in any way. Without exception - every single one of the JW's I have spoken to has met with some emotional trauma that they have found difficult to deal with. FWIW - I'm writing back - anyone can "choose" to "believe" - no problem with that whatever I might think but if they want to talk facts then that is a different matter - a great misunderstanding IMHO is that people who subscribe to a scientific view of the world think they know everything - nothing could be further from the truth - the huge areas of unknowns beyond what science has established (peer reviewed, widespread acceptance) are the primary concern for most people in science - I am very happy to admit there is a lot science does not know - but that's not an excuse to fill the voids with hypothesis that can't be justified - even a good hypothesis has to have reasonable grounds for being proposed.

Will I make a difference to what a JW thinks - probably not. Will a JW change the way I think - probably not as I've engaged with discussions like this my whole life but you never know what you might pick up in terms of new understanding. They are standing up for what they believe in and I'm doing the same - I'm probably just as annoying! Could I sow a seed of doubt - very unlikely but it's a small possibility. They say religious texts have all answers - well it doesn't explain rainbows or anything about the beautiful world around us - this is all tongue in cheek on one level but I am serious about my concern for these people - I've met some very sad and troubled JW people at the door.

The JW's in particular seem very concerned about "uncertainty" and the "unknowns" yet they are the two things that make life both interesting and beautiful.

Books for anyone interested in understanding the strange and dangerous life and world of the JW's include:-
The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses by Botting & Harden
How to Leave Jehovah’s Witnesses - Dan Bergher
Goodbye Jehovah! by Misha Anouk

On Netflix there was a documentary about Cults - it concludes that JW definitely fall into that category.

jwanswers.com/are-jehovahs-witnesses-a-cult-according-to-cults-explained-on-netflix/

Clearly - I have too much time on my hands....

At our old address I took a copy of their magazine when they knocked on the door. They knocked again a few weeks later, I was quite happy to chat to them. This went on for a few months and then I started to get lots of letters and books off them. It got a bit much so DH told them not to knock any more - he's Jewish and I'm Catholic anyway. They promptly stopped (probably horrified 😂)

They can be rather persistent!

I did that once nothing more than take leaflet same as it was double glazing. Constantly coming back including 8am on Sunday morning. I had to be very very very firm in the end as fane indifference seemed to be encouraging them. I think they saw me as a vulnerable adult with disabilities so fair game. I literally had start shouting at them at slamming door in their face. Never would do that anyone else but literally no other way get through.

Trying to recruit vulnerable people. Not cult like at all...

@Akire

I did that once nothing more than take leaflet same as it was double glazing. Constantly coming back including 8am on Sunday morning. I had to be very very very firm in the end as fane indifference seemed to be encouraging them. I think they saw me as a vulnerable adult with disabilities so fair game. I literally had start shouting at them at slamming door in their face. Never would do that anyone else but literally no other way get through.

You give these people an inch, they'll take a mile.