How do we protect these children? There must be more we all can do!

[AnotherThingToDo]

I’m haunted by these poor children who have to endure this torture. How many more are there who aren’t in the news because they haven’t died?

Experts, people in child-protection roles, people with experience: how can people who feel angry and devastated by this channel this emotion into actually making a difference?

We hear time and time again how resources are limited. Is there more that society can do?

Assuming that happened, what other barriers are there to getting effective action taken in stopping abuse like this? Of course services need to be properly funded, but what would need to go hand in hand with that to make sure the money was used to good effect?

Increase the numbers of qualified social workers, give newly qualified workers time to properly gain experience before leading child protection investigations and time and space for decent clinical supervision. Reduce caseloads. Develop skills in professional curiosity and constructive professional challenge, remove pressure to close cases quickly. Improve the skills of social workers and support them to do the job they’re trained to do.

Have a decent network of support services that families can be referred to, including long term, trauma informed therapy.

@MrsSchrute befriend poor/young/single mums? How patronising and insulting to assume they are more likely to abuse their children.

@Cassimin

Removing is not always dreadful. You cannot make sweeping statements like this.

Removing is always dreadful. Regardless of how awful birth parents are, removing a child from the only life they know is traumatic. The most wonderful foster and adoptive parents struggle with the attachment and other issues these children have.

Do people genuinely think children take the SWs hand, walk off not looking back, get immediately placed with warm, loving, permanent homes and thrive?

And there are really poor outcomes in foster care. I've met incredible foster parents who do wonders. But care leavers report high levels of abuse. And no wonder. Unrelated men living with children is a risk factor in itself.

Sometimes there is no good option. Just two bad ones.

One key thing, report to social services, or the police service. How many times have we seen posts about people who know a child is being treat poorly by parents or adults in their lives, who instead of reporting it come to mumsnet for advice? Parents who are in abusive relationships and adamantly want to make it work, instead of leaving for their childrens safety.
As a society we absolutely aren't doing enough to support these children.

IknowwhatIneed
100% agree.
The social worker should not have been intimidated by these manipulative people.
Lack of experience can be disastrous.
Referral to groups such as Homestart can support the family.
Unfortunately these parents probably wouldn’t have accepted support so that’s where we rely on our police and social workers to step in and ensure the child is safe

@BleuJay

The death penalty as punishment/justice.

Agree, I would happily vote for someone bringing this back for child abusers.

@MrsTerryPratchett not sure I entirely agree. I think a lot of the problems these children bring to foster or adoptive homes stem from what theyve suffered previously not the act of removal itself.

MrsTerryPratchett
I understand that the actual removal of the child will be traumatic but the end result will be better.
As for children being abused in foster care then that is another failure by social worker.
I have regular visits from my sons Sw and my Sw .
They see our family, check the home, chat to my foster son.
We have regular hospital checks, school meetings and support from other carers.
If 2 social workers checking in approx every 6 weeks, checking with schools , reading medical reports leave a child with an abusing foster carer they need prosecuting.

[quote Porcupineintherough]@MrsTerryPratchett not sure I entirely agree. I think a lot of the problems these children bring to foster or adoptive homes stem from what theyve suffered previously not the act of removal itself.[/quote]
100%

Of course there are issues they bring. But if you removed my child, raised happily, she would have issues.

Listen to the extended family members and friends that are raising concerns. In my experience we are at best ignored, overlooked, sidelined and at worst belittled, gaslighted and lied to.

@manysummersago

I don’t think it’s so much about hopelessness as acknowledging that in a free society, things like this will happen. It’s horrendous, of course it is, but it can’t always be avoided either.

I think this case should have been avoided, though.

Got to say that given that my question was what else should be done to make extra funding really effective, a reply of 'lots of things, but for some kids there will never be a good outcome' came across as an expression of hopelessness.

I think most people accept that we can't expect a good outcome in every single case. That's different to talking about how removing or leaving a child are both cruel.

Of course there are issues they bring. But if you removed my child, raised happily, she would have issues.
But happy well cared for children are not removed?

[quote Receptionclass]@MrsSchrute befriend poor/young/single mums? How patronising and insulting to assume they are more likely to abuse their children. [/quote]
I didn't think that's that @MrsSchrute was implying - rather, that single mums who have a good circle of friends and support are less likely to be lonely and depressed and easier prey for falling into relationships with dodgy men, who are more likely to be the abusers.

MrsTerryPratchett
Unrelated men living with children is a risk factor in itself.
Gosh, what a sweeping statement.
Tell this to all foster, adoptive and step families.
From what I’ve learnt biological mothers and fathers also abuse

Just feel so powerless. Triggered all DV courses. SWs made me attend because they wanted me to be free of my ex......but the police did nothing to stop my ex. My son saw it all. So many nights it felt like no one was protecting US. At least I was protecting him.

Hearing that little boy, broken and begging, is harrowing. I want to see reform in the powers to intervene. If the Grandmothers or Uncle had reported and refused to take him home - would they have used their section 47, section 17 or better yet section 44 Emergency Protection Order to give Arthur 8 days away from family to feel safe enough to speak??

Let the professionals do their job. Report anything you are concerned about. Let the professionals do their job. Vigilantism helps no one.

@PoddingtonPea21

One common factor in all these cases is social services and the police and decisions not to act.

Flame me, I think they need to be held legally accountable for death by neglect of duty. Until that happens we'll see it again and again.

Yeah that will fucking help Criminalise social workers for not picking up on abuse and that won't push us all out of the profession or anything. That will totally make children safer

@FreeBritnee but they don't do their job do they, as has been proven in this case.

We need tougher more savvy social workers with a bit about them. Brute force, less red tape, more powers. Police and social workers who aren't scared of parents and won't take no for an answer when they are refused entry or to speak to a child.

As a end user of disability childrens socail care I think the end cutbacks have left us with a tick box service. I think it will take generations to recover even with funding increases you have some staff that are have been so overloaded they just dont carecany more. They only see what's very obviously on fire as the bar gets higher and higher.

’Unrelated men living with children is a risk factor in itself.’

She’s right. It is. Living with an unrelated male is a significant risk factor.

Social services needs to be held to account a bit more. People reported what happened to that poor little boy, social workers saw the bruises and still did nothing. It is infuriating to think that they sometimes come across genuine abuse cases like this and do naff all, and then you hear stories about innocent families whose children were taken for no reason by a social worker on a twisted power trip.

@lollipoprainbow

We need tougher more savvy social workers with a bit about them. Brute force, less red tape, more powers. Police and social workers who aren't scared of parents and won't take no for an answer when they are refused entry or to speak to a child.

And where do we get them from?

It comes with experience. Make the job undoable and no one wants to do it for very long and no one gets experience.

We can talk about cutbacks and lack of services all we like but the reality is that if people weren't so fucking cruel, they wouldn't be needed in the first place.

@Prescottdanni123

Social services needs to be held to account a bit more. People reported what happened to that poor little boy, social workers saw the bruises and still did nothing. It is infuriating to think that they sometimes come across genuine abuse cases like this and do naff all, and then you hear stories about innocent families whose children were taken for no reason by a social worker on a twisted power trip.

How would you start to distinguish between the two? You personally?

You are stood on the doorstep and both families are saying something like 'he did that falling off the garden bench/trampoline etc' and both seem plausible. How do you decide who is telling lies and who has just had a malicious complaint made by a disgruntled neighbour sick of the noise from next door.

In lock down so no school/ teachers to keep an eye on things for you.

And you have another 30 cases on your caseload exactly the same.

How do you decide which child is most at risk?