How do we protect these children? There must be more we all can do!

[AnotherThingToDo]

I’m haunted by these poor children who have to endure this torture. How many more are there who aren’t in the news because they haven’t died?

Experts, people in child-protection roles, people with experience: how can people who feel angry and devastated by this channel this emotion into actually making a difference?

We hear time and time again how resources are limited. Is there more that society can do?

I mean area as in safe guarding not area as in Birmingham city council

There is more personal culpability for the protection of your money than there is of children

That’s because removing children from their parents is an act of extreme cruelty which should only be done in cases where abuse is proven. And that’s the problem.

Social workers have caseloads of up to 100 families a week. I know a few who have left the profession as they cannot cope with how poorly they can do their job.

Funding more social workers would be a start.

@MintJulia

Neither of them survived long in prison.

And while I hate that I feel this way, those who have committed such crimes can never be allowed out, no risk of parole, no chance of ever getting near another child.

I don't believe in the death penalty, but I'm not sorry those two are dead.

Agree too on that people who can do things like this shouldn't be released. We're not protecting the vulnerable otherwise. Imagine, even if they're somehow banned from working with children, them getting work as carers for the elderly or some other role where they could perpetuate more abuse.

’Don't vote for the tories who have been eroding public services for many years?’

This ^

It’s amazing that we don’t have more cases like this. When the Tories brought in the ‘swingeing’ cuts to public spending from 2010, it had a real impact. If you want children protected you need more money put into protecting them. More social workers, a lower caseload per social worker, more support for families, more people involved to act on concerns.

If people want social workers ‘named and shamed’ in the media and held personally responsible, I think very quickly we will have none left as they will all just leave.

Agree with this. It's not what happens with doctors or other emergency workers either. Maybe as a pp said it's about greater accountability from the highly paid people right at the top?

Question for those in the field. You're all saying more money and more staff are needed, and I think most people would support that (I would). Assuming that happened, what other barriers are there to getting effective action taken in stopping abuse like this? Of course services need to be properly funded, but what would need to go hand in hand with that to make sure the money was used to good effect?

The UK gets the level of public services that it is prepared to pay for.

This ^

Raise taxes and pay for social care and police to attend with the social workers.

As for putting the social workers on trail for manslaughter - that's not going to entice more social workers to the work, and that would make things worse

MrsTerryPratchett
I’m horrified,
know will likely be a life of abuse in foster care,
How dare you!!!!

Question for those in the field. You're all saying more money and more staff are needed, and I think most people would support that (I would). Assuming that happened, what other barriers are there to getting effective action taken in stopping abuse like this? Of course services need to be properly funded, but what would need to go hand in hand with that to make sure the money was used to good effect?

Lots of things.

But there is one essential issue which can never be solved. Removing is dreadful. Leaving a child in an abusive home is dreadful. Some children have no good outcome

@Howshouldibehave

Good post, *@Heruka*

If people want social workers ‘named and shamed’ in the media and held personally responsible, I think very quickly we will have none left as they will all just leave.

Yes. It also leads to sw spending too much time at their desks writing records to cover themselves, instead of being out with families building relationships. I left cp sw after having caseloads of 40+ and constantly knowing that I could not meet the needs of all those children, feeing guilty and terrified that I would miss something awful and not having any headspace or effective support to think through what was happening in each case. Literally all you could do was run about doing your best to make sure kids were alive, no time or space to build relationships and actually effect change. I’m sure these sws made mistakes and this is devastating. These poor children. It’s naive however to ignore the context in which they work.

Removing is not always dreadful.
You cannot make sweeping statements like this.

’Of course services need to be properly funded, but what would need to go hand in hand with that to make sure the money was used to good effect?’

Looking at what works - what has been studied and proven to have a positive benefit. We can do it. Reviving Sure Start would help.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/16/sure-start-numbers-plummet-as-cuts-hit-childrens-services

Reporting concerns is one thing but they need to be heard , really heard. Too often the most obvious cases aren’t seen

I hate to say this but we have as social workers far too much training and emphasis on identifying abuse that is covered up, subtle, emotional or FII (fabricated or induced illness). Then these cases that should be really obvious and dealt with swiftly are somehow missed as it’s almost like a whole generation of social workers can’t quite believe what’s right in front of their eyes.

So many times being the duty worker and visiting families I know that I’m 9/10 in the wrong house with the wrong children who aren’t at true risk but we have to follow up everything.

Things need simplifying and concerns need action less time training on obscure types of abuse and more time out there with eyes wide open and not too hesitant or unsure to act

@Cassimin

Removing is not always dreadful. You cannot make sweeping statements like this.

What would have happened to Arthur if he’d been removed?

manysummersago
He would still be alive.
My foster sons mum often said that she wished she had been removed. Her life could have been so different.
She was completely failed by social services( over 30 years ago) resulting in her suffering bad mental health issues and being unable to look after her own child.
I cannot understand some of the statements
MrsTerryPratchett Is making.

@manysummersago

There is more personal culpability for the protection of your money than there is of children

That’s because removing children from their parents is an act of extreme cruelty which should only be done in cases where abuse is proven. And that’s the problem.

Removal while investigation takes place often happens , it has to sometimes. These children are placed with loving foster carers although In about 50% of cases Ive dealt with the child is actually an inpatient then parents are arrested and the child is cared for in hospital while various tests are carried out etc

@MrsTerryPratchett

Question for those in the field. You're all saying more money and more staff are needed, and I think most people would support that (I would). Assuming that happened, what other barriers are there to getting effective action taken in stopping abuse like this? Of course services need to be properly funded, but what would need to go hand in hand with that to make sure the money was used to good effect?

Lots of things.

But there is one essential issue which can never be solved. Removing is dreadful. Leaving a child in an abusive home is dreadful. Some children have no good outcome

The trouble is, that sounds awfully like the Tory response of 'there will always be hungry children' to Marcus Rashford's half term school meals campaign.

Where does this response get us? It seems to just encourage apathy and hopelessness.

MrsTerryPratchett Are you suggesting most foster carers are abusers then ?
How offensive to those trying to help and support children who have endured trauma and abuse !

I know he’d be alive, but that’s not what I asked. I asked what you thought would happen to him.

MrsTerryPratchett
Exactly my thought.
I am a foster carer and know many others. Neither i or any of the carers I know do not devote 100% of our time, energy and love to these children.
I have done lots of voluntary work with children and now foster a child with complex needs, for a lot less pay than a social worker.
No sick pay, no holiday pay, no clocking off so for a social worker to say my son shouldn’t have been removed or that we would abuse him I find this incredible.

I don’t think it’s so much about hopelessness as acknowledging that in a free society, things like this will happen. It’s horrendous, of course it is, but it can’t always be avoided either.

I think this case should have been avoided, though.

But there is one essential issue which can never be solved. Removing is dreadful. Leaving a child in an abusive home is dreadful. Some children have no good outcome

I'm glad you clarified that with SOME. My neighbours fostered a couple of siblings (toddler and newborn) and ultimately adopted them. Those children wouldn't be alive today if they hadn't bern removed from their parents. I can't go into details but it was horrific. As it is they're wonderful young adults who are a credit to my neighbours' devotion to their happiness and well being.

You cant separate this from politics completely because austerity did result in more pressure on public services.

What to do to help - befriend the parents of a child you suspect may be abused. Take the child away to play with your own child sometimes. Encourage them to draw a picture of your family, to talk to you. If that increases your suspicions then report and be detailed in the report. And keep following it up with additional reports.

The problems is that all normal children get some bruises. A friend of my child got loads because they had no fear, it was hard work to keep them from breaking bones. I used to watch them twice as much as my own child when they visited. Some people wouldnt have them round, didnt want that responsibility. I dont know what powers social workers have to remove a child for medical examination but maybe that needs to happen more often.

@Cassimin

manysummersago He would still be alive. My foster sons mum often said that she wished she had been removed. Her life could have been so different. She was completely failed by social services( over 30 years ago) resulting in her suffering bad mental health issues and being unable to look after her own child. I cannot understand some of the statements MrsTerryPratchett Is making.

I totally agree with you. Removal of a child from the family home can be life changing in a great way

manysummersago
If members of his family could not look after him he would have been placed into foster care.
If suitable he could have been placed for adoption.
Worse case scenario he would have been placed in a residential home. Not the best outcome but surely better than the actual one.