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How do we protect these children? There must be more we all can do!

473 replies

AnotherThingToDo · 03/12/2021 15:09

I’m haunted by these poor children who have to endure this torture. How many more are there who aren’t in the news because they haven’t died?

Experts, people in child-protection roles, people with experience: how can people who feel angry and devastated by this channel this emotion into actually making a difference?

We hear time and time again how resources are limited. Is there more that society can do?

OP posts:
Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 03/12/2021 22:11

@Cattipuss

Don't vote for the tories who have been eroding public services for many years?
Child abuse happens regardless. Solihull is a really excellent council. I don’t have any answers.
Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 03/12/2021 22:13

@manysummersago

I am no Tory fan but how ridiculous to suggest that in voting for them you are voting for child abuse.

Baby P, Shannon Mathews, Rotherham grooming gangs, Victoria Climbié, all happened on a labour watch.

This. People who abuse are devious and manipulative.
Porcupineintherough · 03/12/2021 22:14

@IncessantNameChanger yes but at any given time how do you prioritize which one of the children currently under your care you are going to deal with next? Surely you can see that whilst it might be possible to do a competent and professional job with a case load of x families, it's not going to be possible if that's doubled to 2x or trebled?

Howshouldibehave · 03/12/2021 22:14

@Pencilandpaper

I work in a school. We have had a few cases of Covid. Our social workers have stopped coming in because of it, instead doing check ins with their assigned children via video! Primary school vulnerable, abused and neglected children, being assessed for further signs of abuse and neglect over bloody video. Also had vulnerable children known to SS disappear off the radar because parents phone in and state “Covid”. “Covid symptoms”, “waiting for tests results” etc. Happens over and over with the same children, we have no idea what they are doing and no SS to check in because they are crying Covid. I’m sick of it. I cry at night thinking about what some kids are going through.
I agree with this.

During lockdown, when schools were open for KW only, no social workers, specialist teachers, EPs or speech therapists would come into school. This hasn’t really changed all those months later.

Schools are expected to function as normal, with Ofsted coming in to monitor this, but we still haven’t seen a social worker in person in my school since March 2020.

IncessantNameChanger · 03/12/2021 22:16

[quote Flapjacker48]@IncessantNameChanger Right, so when a social worker has excessive cases to manage and there simply aren't enough hours in the day to give each one the attention in deserves, they should do what? Just don't think about it as you say? How ridiculous.[/quote]
Push back maybe?

Or as you SEN to be suggesting they are powerless to do anything? In which case do nothing I guess which is the ideal solution. Why are they so powerless?

If the answer is do nothing then that's the answer surely? There is no solution so it's not worth talking about. I'm sure there are managers and consultants by the bucket load in management in the civil services proposing that nothing can be done to change anything.

I dont get this. it's a self fulfilling profacy then. Nothing can improve.

IncessantNameChanger · 03/12/2021 22:18

This is going back to not being child centric. Socail care is the tragic victim here.

IknowwhatIneed · 03/12/2021 22:28

*Push back maybe?

Or as you SEN to be suggesting they are powerless to do anything? In which case do nothing I guess which is the ideal solution. Why are they so powerless?*

Push back to who? Their managers, who have X number of cases and Y numbers of social workers to allocate to. Social worker A pushes back so the manager allocated to social worker B instead, who also has an excessive case load, social worker B pushes back so it goes to C who also has an excessive case load, but is relatively newly qualified so doesn’t think they can push back. So they add the case to their load, they have a case conference to attend, 2 home visits, a court appearance and a contact visit to supervise. And now a new case to investigate too. You’re on duty for the next two days and will also be allocated any cases that come in while on duty.

You can be as child centred as you like, but you can’t create more hours in a day, something in that case load is going to be half done, or put on the back burner and every single one could reasonably end in tragedy. I’d be interested to hear how you’d do it. Not how you think it should work but what you’d prioritise, what you’d not do, and how you’d cover all of the bases to the degree they need to be.

IncessantNameChanger · 03/12/2021 22:30

[quote Porcupineintherough]@IncessantNameChanger yes but at any given time how do you prioritize which one of the children currently under your care you are going to deal with next? Surely you can see that whilst it might be possible to do a competent and professional job with a case load of x families, it's not going to be possible if that's doubled to 2x or trebled?[/quote]
I'm just interested as someone who works in safeguarding in a school that it's down to one person to make a cursery eyeball judgement call. If your clever then it's very easy to avoid socail.workers glare.

So in reality socail services investigations are not and can never be robust in your scenario.

Let me ask this. Socail care would have less work if people reported concerns. Let's be honest there. At the coalface you would benefit from less referrals

Some of us are obligated and have it drilled into us that we report up. I believe its paramount we do. "Safeguarding is everyones responsibility" or it's not.

At school we look for a certain occurrence of bruises or bruises in certain places that a child couldnt fall easily and bruise. Like the inside of legs and arms and top of your back But all that isnt looked at as no time. Interesting

QuickSandSickSand · 03/12/2021 22:33

Better everything. Better multi-agency working - why aren’t professionals talking to each other? Focus on what NEEDS to be focussed on. No more ‘computer says no’ gubbins. Less discrimination which DOES play a part in all this. More accountability especially high up. First or jobs should come with a minimum 5 year terms in local government, too many work for a year and bugger off at the first sniff of a scandal, no longer accountable.

I could write a book on how to make it better TBH

SWLouise · 03/12/2021 23:01

Imagine if all the people with solutions on this thread put their hands up to become Social Workers!? No child would ever die at the hands of parents and carers, those supposed to protect and care for them ever again.... Sadly I think not.

Come to work with me for a day, in an assessment team, managing a team of 5 SWs with 160 children open, 20/30 new referrals to be triaged every week (on a good week), where you have to decide which referrals you allocate for asessential (most of which require parental consent), and which have no further action.

Once you've decided threshold you have to find a social worker with space for new allocations. I stare at my spreadsheet looking at it from all possible angles wondering which social worker has the capacity to take another family, which might cry feeling further overwhelmed if allocated another.

Try going into work everyday, dreading what might await you, an awful, heart sinking referral or another resignation letter, sick note or colleague crying and in despair. Whilst at the same time trying to motivate, nurture a team of some of the best, most caring, well intentioned experienced SWs to keep doing what their doing because 'it will get better', 'referral rates can't go on like this forever', all whilst knowing there is no end, no more staff left to replace workers that left, no funding to replace resources long gone and no saviours for children's social care.

The only time people hear about children's social workers is when children die, tragically. No one marches for Social Workers, there is no clap for social workers, thank yous, barely any public acknowledgement.... until people want a SW named and shamed. Child Protection is in a dark corner of public services. People don't want social workers in their families generally, we dont want public recignition etc, just for the public to have some insight into the realities. Sadly a lot of the comments on this thread are not that.

I am proud that where I work visits have continued as normal, SWs have been in and out of schools and houses as usual since March 2020. Unlike some other professions who retreated entirely to virtual visits. Me and my team have strived to keep children safe in the most challenging of circumstances. My heart goes out to the SWs who went to that house, I cannot imagine how they must have replayed it over in their heads, every little part.
I have spent the last two days thinking about how we can talk about these headlines with my team next week as 100% there is always learning to come from such awful, tragic cases, I will await the review for full details but please remember social workers are people too.

SafeguardingSocialWorker · 03/12/2021 23:03

[quote IncessantNameChanger]@SafeguardingSocialWorker

Surely in all of your 30 caseloads you talk to school and the gp as a minimum?

You ask school if the kids comes in regularly on time, clean and happy? You ask the gp if there have been hospital admissions? Please God tell me that you dont just turn up, stand on the doorstep and make a lone judgement call?

Surely it does not work like that?[/quote]
I don't work in child safeguarding I work in adult safeguarding but the challenges of 'getting the truth' and 'getting access' are similar.

How do I, as a lone working female social worker with no legal powers of access gain access:

  1. To a property on an estate where the police will only go in twos.
You are met at the door by a burly bloke saying everything's fine, little Charlie here fell off his bike last week, tell em Charlie that's how you go the bruises, yadada yayada, yeah yeah alright love just know you are doing your job but all's fine here, nah you'd better not come in his older sisters on the sofa off school with covid. Come back in 10 days when she's out of isolation
  1. Large house out on the outskirts of town. Met at the door by the ring doorbell. Mum inside answers via doorbell, 'sorry what do you want, what do you mean there's been concerns, don't be ridiculous little Arthur just fell off his bike again, he's very clumsy. have school really reported that?. Well I'm not happy talking to you until my husband is home, please can you come back then and I will be talking to my solicitor too'.

What would you do next?

SafeguardingSocialWorker · 03/12/2021 23:06

And my point was, there was no school for an awful lot of 2020. Child Protection SWs are playing catch-up as issues emerge from nearly 2 years of people having plausible reasons to hide children from them.

QuickSandSickSand · 03/12/2021 23:07

@SWLouise people are absolutely entitled to be angry about a broken system failing families without volunteering to become SWs Hmm some people on here have had lived experiences of being let down by social services, they’re entitled to be pissed off. Can you not understand that? Why are you moaning about not getting clapped for? I didn’t clap for the NHS either.

SWLouise · 03/12/2021 23:21

Absolutely @QuickSandSickSand, although a lot of people here seem to have a lot of answers and solutions for a broken system they have very little insight and knowledge of. I'm not moaning about not getting clapped for, I'm trying to make a point about the very minimal presence of Child Protection SW in mainstream media, except when something like this happens. People don't talk eough about the realities of it, there's no news articles (until something awful happens), there's no documentaries etc to show people what it's like and how it works. No one talks about being a social worker like they do a teacher, nurse or paramedic. I don't fully know or understand why but it is different and media exposure is different and I think it's a shame social workers only come up when something like this happens. There is so much more complexity to social work and the child protection system than these headlines reflect.

user1471519931 · 03/12/2021 23:26

@BleuJay no, the death penalty is not a deterrent and I would much rather live in a. Country where the state does not have the right to end citizen's lives...there will always be miscarriages of justices - sentences can be overturned but you can not come back from death.

Of course now that we have left the EU, we are no longer beholden to uphold the moratorium against the death penalty....well this is a hill that I am ready to die on and I will campaign against it until my dying day.

Peregrina · 03/12/2021 23:28

One of the problems social workers have is that it's difficult to show when their interventions work.

A good teacher can hope to show a measure of success - a child passing an exam or a younger child learning to read. Medical professionals can point to people recovering from their illness. But for social workers - what? The child isn't neglected and harmed in some way, but that is just what a normal child looks like. You as a social worker may know you have had a successful intervention, but the general public don't.

QuickSandSickSand · 03/12/2021 23:29

@SWLouise I did point out to a colleague today that we will never hear about the Arthur’s who werent near misses, who had earlier intervention and are thriving today.

I think a documentary about child protection SWs would only serve to give abusive people insider tips on what SWs look for, and plan accordingly, if that makes sense? A bit like how the Real Hustle just have bloody good tips on how to become a scammer!

SWLouise · 03/12/2021 23:35

[quote IncessantNameChanger]@SafeguardingSocialWorker

Surely in all of your 30 caseloads you talk to school and the gp as a minimum?

You ask school if the kids comes in regularly on time, clean and happy? You ask the gp if there have been hospital admissions? Please God tell me that you dont just turn up, stand on the doorstep and make a lone judgement call?

Surely it does not work like that?[/quote]
Don't forget under Section 17 it's consent based, you need consent or a parent to speak to anyone other than the referrer. If the parents don't give consent and threshold to escalate isn't there, then what?
If you get consent, speak to the HV or GP, neither of which have seen a pre school age child for a number of years?? Both might have had phone contacts or maybe video, but likely not and not been in the house and laid eyes on the child? Then what? Even pre covid how many times have parents of pre school age children been visited by a HV unless already on a vulnerable/safeguarding pathway?? That's just thinking about families with under school age of course but it's not black and white, there are so many variables.

Nefelibata86 · 03/12/2021 23:38

@Peregrina well said. And confidentiality makes it difficult for local authorities to respond to criticism.

IncessantNameChanger · 03/12/2021 23:40

@SafeguardingSocialWorker well it seems you two excuses to go back write up that every thing was fine and close the cases both within a hour each. Win win for you.

That isnt how it works in my county. You could not close a case by someone not opening a door.

What you can do in my county is cancel enough meetings at the last minute that parents start to actively avoid you to come off radar. Then you can say they are refusing to engage. Try it. It might make your job more rewarding again.

Clearly there needs to be national policy to follow.

Btw I cant write national policy. I cant recruit civil servants and I cant write you a check so to be clear I cant do anything to change anything.

What I could do for you would be ignore any concerns I see. But I'm never going to do that.

However as a parent of a child who has a disability SW who does nothing and has nothing to offer on a personal level I am actively off radar and on the books but very invisible. Reading this thread has reminded me why my own disabled child is safer invisible and not seen at legally required times. My child is being failed but everyone else wins.

RadishRose · 03/12/2021 23:45

Not a SW but work in a related field. In this area all the home, school, hospital and community visits continued throughout lockdowns, working with families who often took no COVID precautions so it was very risky at the time. Most of the SW I’ve met have been incredibly dedicated and passionate about children and families and trying to do the right thing. It’s a very complex and difficult job and they face abuse and violence as well as emotional burnout. They have very little support or protection, everyone hates them - not sure why they do it really but thank God someone does.

SWLouise · 03/12/2021 23:46

It's a real catch 22 @QuickSandSickSand because it could potentially. There was one years ago set in Bristol, I watched it long before my social work days but would be interested to watch it now, never seen anything like it since. No idea what it was called but I can picture the family it featured clearly.
Maybe a good starting point would be more general media coverage about staff shortage and chronic under funding, akin to the coverage adult social care gets.

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