How do we protect these children? There must be more we all can do!

[AnotherThingToDo]

I’m haunted by these poor children who have to endure this torture. How many more are there who aren’t in the news because they haven’t died?

Experts, people in child-protection roles, people with experience: how can people who feel angry and devastated by this channel this emotion into actually making a difference?

We hear time and time again how resources are limited. Is there more that society can do?

@Caffeinefirst
Yes there is no way for me as a safeguarding lead teacher to raise a concern or even just discuss a child with another professional without parental consent unless I believe the child is at immediate risk of significant harm. If I phone social services the first thing they ask me is have I gained parental consent to share. If I say no they ask me to explain the immediate risk of significant harm and will not engage with me unless I can justify this.

@Cassimin this is nothing to do with the thread but can you explain to me why someone would be in long term foster care rather than be adopted and why a long term foster carer would do that rather than adopt? Thanks

@IknowwhatIneed

*I'd love to know what funding had to do with proper lifting of his t shirt. Proper investigation of the photo which to anyone shows a far worse bruise than a child's boxing glove. The police resources used to threaten the worried family...*

Funding means experienced social workers are leaving the profession, and reduces training - you know things like training in identifying non-accidental injuries. Funding means that you have 30 other kids whose living circumstances may be considerably worse than the child in front of you with a bad bruise, explained by an apparently reasonable parent who seems to be coping ok, funding means you don’t have time to do the multiple visits needed to get underneath what might actually be happening. Funding means you’re thankful for a case that appears non-urgent because every other case you have is on fire. Funding means your manager doesn’t have time or space to really interrogate your assessment and means your manager may be relatively inexperienced because all the experienced people have left.

Funding means the threshold for a full investigation is so high that a bruise doesn’t reach it - because those resources are being used for kids with bruises + poor housing + no food + no available parent. Funding means when your colleagues are off with Covid your workload doubles - and there’s little time to explore creative ways to do your job in a new way in a national lockdown because all those families on your case load are in crisis because of Covid and they were in crisis anyway.

It’s not that lifting a t-shirt costs money, it does cost time, and it takes experience to persuade a parent to let you have a look, and then to know whether what you’re looking at is serious enough to start the process of medical examination, investigation and removal. And all of those things do cost money so you need to be sure, because resources are tight.

If you can’t make the link between good, experienced, staff, workloads and quality child protection practice you should probably stabs for election.

Excellent post.

A lot of foster carers do it as their job, so they couldn't afford to be unemployed and adopt a child a couldn't do another job alongside the needs of the child. So there are financial elements to it (before anyone jumps on me, I don't think that's wrong!)

A lot of these kids have parents who are trying to change their circumstances, or who may still have this child's other siblings living at home, or with other family members. So a long term foster placement can keep them close to their family and sometimes with the goal of them returning to their family of origin (eg. If a parent is in prison, or overwhelmed by having too many kids, or is in an abusive situation and this might change).

I'm sure there are many other reasons. The situations I know of it's the above reasons though

@ineedsun many children aren’t suitable for adoption due to the impact of early trauma - their needs are such they are best served by permanent foster care for example where there are significant additional needs or disability. Remaining in foster care means the local authority acts as corporate parent and can put relevant services in place in a way that’s very difficult in adoption.

Other children simply age out - it’s very difficult to find an adoptive placement for children older than 5 or 6, most adopters want younger, pre-school children. So while there may be a permanence plan, there may not be an adoptive parent for the child and so a permanent foster placement will be sought. Foster carers are paid for children placed with them - usually an annual retainer and an allowance per child, it’s very unusual for adopters to receive an adoption allowance now so finances often play a part in the decision to foster rather than adopt.

While we talk about permanence planning and long term foster care, it’s usual that children in long term foster care will have a number of placements including residential care because as their behaviour becomes more challenging, foster carers often withdraw so the child moves on. Adopters don’t have the option to give the child back, because they have parental rights and responsibilities in a way that foster carers don’t.

I just don't think the public realise how many children live in neglectful and abusive homes that we know about.

By this I mean, children who have services and professionals involved, on child in need and child protection plans. We know about them, we know they're living in poor conditions and are in danger but there's nothing we can do about it. We remove them and put them where exactly?

The bar for early help support in most areas is so high you lot would be shocked, never mind the thresholds for escalating up to child protection.

I've got the ncpca to remove a dog on the same day as my initial visit due to the despicable home conditions, owners blatant drug use and poor mental health while the 2 small children remained in the home with that same adult. Those 2 children, 3 years on are STILL with their abusive mother, living in vile conditions and guess what... social care still say 'it doesn't meet the threshold'. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if I went in one Monday morning to the news something terrible has happened to one of the children.

And people DO report abuse and neglect. Social care have had multiple reports both from professionals, me, school, nursery and also multiple anonymous referrals from neighbours, and family friends about this family.

This case is just an example. There are so many more like it in my area.

Social care do not have the capacity to support these families. Health visitors are too stretched and are barely doing the bare minimum of their roles at the moment due to low staffing, education are too stretched to help.

It's just a shit show and I'm not in the slightest bit surprised that this poor, poor little boy is dead. Not one bit.

I don’t think people realise that social workers have no power to remove children.

Only the police and courts have that power. Social workers can discuss concerns with parents and support them to identify family members who can help etc, even ask if parents will allow children to be looked after on a voluntary basis but otherwise we have zero power. I’m assertive where it is needed but in the first instance I rely on having good relationships with the family members so that they keep allowing me access to their children. That means working honestly with them eg ‘we’ve had reports of Oliver having injuries are you happy for me to have a look at him’. I always ask for children to show me their bedrooms as it’s an opportunity to see their personal space as well as giving me space to speak with them alone and somewhere they hopefully feel safe.
I have to view every part of a child who is reported to have an injury and take photos of any marks and speak to all caregivers plus the child for an explanation of them.
I’ve had a number of situations where the very slight injuries could be explained and it sounded plausible but where I have asked for medical examination because I’ve been worried about physical abuse. The police will never agree for the medical in the strategy discussion unless there’s a visible injury. Even when I push this as we know the child has been subject to physical abuse (worried about healed or old injuries in light of disclosure of historic physical abuse) the on call peadiatrician won’t agree it calling it ‘a fishing exercise’
There are several children I am working with where I worry about them dying and feel that’s a real risk but I’m told it doesn’t meet threshold to have a legal planning meeting (to meet with our solicitor to see if it meets threshold for court) and to keep working it

I am not here to justify any failings that led to Arthur suffering, things need to change. I can see how the system failed him and many others and in fear of the next child being one I have missed something with or failed to act quickly enough

[quote ineedsun]@Cassimin this is nothing to do with the thread but can you explain to me why someone would be in long term foster care rather than be adopted and why a long term foster carer would do that rather than adopt? Thanks[/quote]
In addition to the posters above, lots of adopted children (particularly older adoptees) have additional needs or behaviours which means standard wrap around and holiday care doesn't work for them or they have frequent health / additional need appointments, so ex-foster carers (ex because they adopt the foster child) can't replace the income lost by getting a "normal" job.

Thank you, that’s really interesting. My kids are adopted but I don’t really understand the fostering side as it seems so precarious for kids on a long term basis. When we’re older and can afford to retire we may look at fostering, my boys foster parents were amazing but it was short term so really different.

ineedsun
As above our son was deemed not suitable for adoption.
Trauma, complex needs, attachment to mum.
We were short term carers, only intended to foster for a couple of years then I would return to work until retirement. Our birth children were old and we were looking forward to a bit of childless time.
When it was decided he would be placed in long term care/ residential we changed our status to keep him with us.
We had a very good relationship with his mum, promoted contact and I did the supervised visits so that was working well.
We were asked after about 6 years to go for a SGO but after talking to other carers and SW we decided against it.
Sw told us if we did this he would loose any financial benefits that he would receive that looked after children get when it’s time to leave care. Also there may be things that he may get as his LA failed him.
There are a lot of financial benefits for children in care as the LA are their corporate parents.

For us, there are the financial benefits- we get paid (not as much as if I was back in work)
It’s always good to be able to cc a social worker in on emails to education and health professionals, (no one likes to think others think they can’t do their job properly!)
In all honesty we don’t have any minuses with SW coming round, as we are very settled they don’t do anything and I don’t ask them for anything.
All of our reviews and panel meetings are over quickly as everything is settled.
I enjoy all of the training I get as a foster carer.
The emotional support from other carers is essential for me, I’ve had some very challenging times.
We are left to get on with things really
The only thing we have to ask for are letters to take him out of the country on holiday ( we’ve had a few problems with that due to mistakes by SW but that’s another story)
We are approved for 3 children but due to our sons needs we will not take any more. He couldn’t cope.
He is our family, he knows he is living with us for as long as he wants and he knows we and his Fbrothers and sisters are here for him forever.

@stmw123

I just don't think the public realise how many children live in neglectful and abusive homes that we know about.

By this I mean, children who have services and professionals involved, on child in need and child protection plans. We know about them, we know they're living in poor conditions and are in danger but there's nothing we can do about it. We remove them and put them where exactly?

The bar for early help support in most areas is so high you lot would be shocked, never mind the thresholds for escalating up to child protection.

I've got the ncpca to remove a dog on the same day as my initial visit due to the despicable home conditions, owners blatant drug use and poor mental health while the 2 small children remained in the home with that same adult. Those 2 children, 3 years on are STILL with their abusive mother, living in vile conditions and guess what... social care still say 'it doesn't meet the threshold'. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if I went in one Monday morning to the news something terrible has happened to one of the children.

And people DO report abuse and neglect. Social care have had multiple reports both from professionals, me, school, nursery and also multiple anonymous referrals from neighbours, and family friends about this family.

This case is just an example. There are so many more like it in my area.

Social care do not have the capacity to support these families. Health visitors are too stretched and are barely doing the bare minimum of their roles at the moment due to low staffing, education are too stretched to help.

It's just a shit show and I'm not in the slightest bit surprised that this poor, poor little boy is dead. Not one bit.

Sadly, everything said here ^

Quite astonishingly, Google tells me there are 388k children classed as in need, as of june 2021
With almost 690k referrals to social services last year, each and everyone will need to be assessed and investigated.

But that really is the tiniest tip of the iceburg, as Child Protection Plans, and then Child in Need Plans get down graded or closed FAR sooner than they should, or referrals are either not accepted, or not made in the first place.

Partly due to possible referrers knowing they won't meet the ridiculously high threshold, and partly due to staff in so called Universal services - such as the HVs who are so maligned on here so often, or Nurseries, or the sparsity of Children's centres and al the groups they used to run now no longer getting to see families and see the dc and chat with the local community in a non- threatening environment.

Wasn't't there an NSPCC campaign that said that a child dies every week at the hands of their parents?

Is this the case?

And if so why is there only ever a case that catches the public's eye every few years?

And also why has this one caused the government to step in? Yes it is completely awful. I have tried to avoid the details because threads on Mumsnet have made it out to be the worst thing they have ever heard. But I've read of others that are just as bad and to be honest even more awful. Though young people on here won't have heard of them.

We really need this to stop immediately. The NSPCC campaign that promised we can stop this (FULL STOP) gave me so much hope, but it's obviously just empty words

I think most people think if they knew what Arthur was going through and could go back in time and the only way to save him was to take him into their home they would have.

Why can't we tap into that?

It is always hard to tell which murdered children will catch the public eye.
But they need to be photogenic, a female harming them will draw more attention often, there will have been a gap of a couple years since the last case focused on, some extra element cruelty seems to attract people.
Then there is handwringing, blaming low level individuals and nothing changes until it happens again.

But in terms of doing something homestart volunteering, signing up to be a mentor for kids in care, helping to run an extra school club.
Almost anything would help.

@Cassimin

ineedsun As above our son was deemed not suitable for adoption. Trauma, complex needs, attachment to mum. We were short term carers, only intended to foster for a couple of years then I would return to work until retirement. Our birth children were old and we were looking forward to a bit of childless time. When it was decided he would be placed in long term care/ residential we changed our status to keep him with us. We had a very good relationship with his mum, promoted contact and I did the supervised visits so that was working well. We were asked after about 6 years to go for a SGO but after talking to other carers and SW we decided against it. Sw told us if we did this he would loose any financial benefits that he would receive that looked after children get when it’s time to leave care. Also there may be things that he may get as his LA failed him. There are a lot of financial benefits for children in care as the LA are their corporate parents.

For us, there are the financial benefits- we get paid (not as much as if I was back in work)
It’s always good to be able to cc a social worker in on emails to education and health professionals, (no one likes to think others think they can’t do their job properly!)
In all honesty we don’t have any minuses with SW coming round, as we are very settled they don’t do anything and I don’t ask them for anything.
All of our reviews and panel meetings are over quickly as everything is settled.
I enjoy all of the training I get as a foster carer.
The emotional support from other carers is essential for me, I’ve had some very challenging times.
We are left to get on with things really
The only thing we have to ask for are letters to take him out of the country on holiday ( we’ve had a few problems with that due to mistakes by SW but that’s another story)
We are approved for 3 children but due to our sons needs we will not take any more. He couldn’t cope.
He is our family, he knows he is living with us for as long as he wants and he knows we and his Fbrothers and sisters are here for him forever.

Thank you for sharing this, I really appreciate it. You’ve definitely (along with others) raised my awareness.

@GreenLunchBox

I think most people think if they knew what Arthur was going through and could go back in time and the only way to save him was to take him into their home they would have.

Why can't we tap into that?

I would have assumed because the police would take the child back and possibly charge you with child abduction.

twitter.com/GMB/status/1467768446884663299
I must say I was shocked by this.

@GreenLunchBox

Wasn't't there an NSPCC campaign that said that a child dies every week at the hands of their parents?

Is this the case?

And if so why is there only ever a case that catches the public's eye every few years?

And also why has this one caused the government to step in? Yes it is completely awful. I have tried to avoid the details because threads on Mumsnet have made it out to be the worst thing they have ever heard. But I've read of others that are just as bad and to be honest even more awful. Though young people on here won't have heard of them.

We really need this to stop immediately. The NSPCC campaign that promised we can stop this (FULL STOP) gave me so much hope, but it's obviously just empty words

A 5 year old s body was found in a river in wales very recently, mother and step dad charged with murder, its only really made the regional press.

NSPCC can only do so much, tbh i 'm fed up with the fact we turn to charities, they should be providing the extras for vulnerable kids, not trying to save them from dying.

@derxa

twitter.com/GMB/status/1467768446884663299 I must say I was shocked by this.

I came on to see what everyone else thought of this. I was watching it this morning when getting ready for work and it literally stopped me in my tracks. If these are the people in charge of looking after vulnerable children then what hope do they have.

Basically saying that during a pandemic when we were being told to stay away from hospitals, that the granny should have brought Arthur to get his injury looked at and that would have triggered intervention from the appropriate authorities. Instead of what the grandmother did , i.e. GOING STRAIGHT TO THE APPROPRIATE AUTHORITIES.

Honestly my blood is still boiling.

The Association of Child Protection Professionals is a charity, it has no direct role in child protection, its just a set up that SW's and others involved in child issues can join.
A bit like the Federation of Master Builders or Check a Trader.

She clearly didn't know what she is on about.

Oh good. I'll admit to missing where she was actually from. And in my annoyance I didn't check. Apologies.

@AndreaC67

The Association of Child Protection Professionals is a charity, it has no direct role in child protection, its just a set up that SW's and others involved in child issues can join. A bit like the Federation of Master Builders or Check a Trader.

She clearly didn't know what she is on about.

www.childprotectionprofessionals.org.uk/about-us According to their website it is nothing like 'Check a Trader'

GreenLunchBox

Unlike the poster above I was thinking maybe you meant more people could foster???
If so I would agree.
The problem is the whole process of becoming a FC puts a lot of people off, obviously they need to be very thorough to ensure that the child is placed in a safe place.
Your private life, medical history, finances, family, home are all delved into over a period of months. You have many, many meetings with social worker asking really private and often intimate questions.
If you manage to get through all of this and you get a child coming it’s often completely different to what you imagine.
These poor children are coming from a life of chaos and trauma. As people have said before the actual act of removal is beyond awful. They are being ripped from all they know.
A high % have undiagnosed neurodevelopmental conditions so their behaviour is off the wall.
It’s not just about providing a loving, safe environment. It impacts on your whole family, especially if you have your own children.
Add this to all the paperwork, meetings, training sessions and abuse that you can get from parents it’s often not what you thought you were getting into. Lots of carers I know are diagnosed with compassion fatigue.
Retaining foster carers is a massive problem.

@PoddingtonPea21

One common factor in all these cases is social services and the police and decisions not to act.

Flame me, I think they need to be held legally accountable for death by neglect of duty. Until that happens we'll see it again and again.

The police didn't kill that poor little boy, neither did Social Services. It was his father who neglected him and ultimately his father's girlfriend who killed him. They are the ones responsible.