How do we protect these children? There must be more we all can do!

[AnotherThingToDo]

I’m haunted by these poor children who have to endure this torture. How many more are there who aren’t in the news because they haven’t died?

Experts, people in child-protection roles, people with experience: how can people who feel angry and devastated by this channel this emotion into actually making a difference?

We hear time and time again how resources are limited. Is there more that society can do?

Also I @IknowwhatIneed is totally correct about the shirt lifting.
If you have ever tried to persuade a parent with plenty to hide to lift a child's t-shirt for you would know how difficult it actually is.

I have been remembering a case this week when we had to do this and found a horrific collection of bruises and bites but getting to point wasn't easy.

Looking back on case which I have done from time to time I mostly feel as a worker that l was lucky because I can see several points when it might not have happened and it could have been a very different outcome.

If I had come across that case at the start of my CP practice rather than towards the end or a couple of practical issues fell slightly differently I can easily see how the damage might not have been seen that day.

Not sure if it has already been posted, but the chair of the Climbie inquiry has spoken out about cuts and how they are contributing to the difficulties in managing child protection cases. Well worth a read.

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/dec/04/arthur-labinjo-hughes-abuse-cases-being-missed-due-to-funding-cuts

I’m reading on hear that statistically children who are removed from their parents have worse outcomes, blaming the removal for this. Couldn’t it just be the fact that the first years of their lives have affected them so badly that most of them will never catch up to their peers?

Yes some of it is down to early life experiences, however removing a child from their birth parents is a significant trauma for them - they leave everything familiar and are placed with strangers. Those strangers are paid to have the children placed with them and often have more than one child/sibling group placed at various points, so more home disruption every time a child comes or goes. At any time that placement might break down which is yet more uncertainty for the child.

They have no sense of permanence even if they’re on a permanence order - I know one child placed in a permanent placement aged 9, they’re now aged 13 on their fourth “permanent” placement - each time the foster carers have said they can’t cope with him.

The reality is that for kids aged over 5/6 no one want to adopt them, such are the challenges with older children, and they bounce round the care system. Residential homes aren’t much better with staff on a rota who come and go.

I had a young person attending LAC review meetings while studying for her exams, the level of anxiety for her meant she simply couldn’t concentrate because that meeting could realistically change her placement- again.

In many cases foster carers are just a bit better than the homes the children come from, understanding of early trauma and the ongoing impact on behaviour and mental health are pretty woeful, the concepts of therapeutic parenting and positive behaviour management are poorly understood and if it gets too hard the foster carer can simply move them in, so a commitment to staying with the child no matter what isn’t there. Not in all cases, but in many.

My daughter has been deeply harmed by her experience of removal and foster care, before we look at her experiences in her birth family. Removal isn’t a good option for children, it’s the least worst, and certainly not the answer in most cases.

Maybe a Sw could become an MP?
I don’t know, I’m just throwing ideas around as nobody else seems to be

There are MPs who work in the NHS, it still hasn't helped.

Government ministers don't use SS, so its not on their radar.

On the services they do use, they go straight to the front of the queue, Johnson walked past the all people waiting for the booster, in and out in 5 mins, photo op done.
Just as Cameron did with his son.

The only way to change the system and funding is have people who care at the top.

@ElfontheShelfisLookingatYou

My neighbour left SW a few years ago (too stressful) she knows about the case through former contacts, she said if SW's acted on every report of a child being hit or shouted at, let alone ones where a new partner moved in, they would treble their workload.

Over the years, she has told me stories that in all honesty, are hard to believe, yet never make the national headlines as they so common.

@BananaBlue

I didn’t want to derail the thread, but the SW/CAHMs situ is an example of how difficult the job must be and how underfunding/resourcing has caused and is causing a time bomb. The same frustrations must apply to housing/school places/care homes etc?

In my job I get results for 90% of the contacts I make, solving problems, successfully closing a project gives me huge job satisfaction, I cannot see this being standard in SW.

For every Arthur there must be a load of kids who didn’t die, didn’t need hosp. Imagine that. And you as a SW have 30 or even 10 of these on your books?

I really felt I would be good at the job, but not under those conditions. I admire those who keep going.

Thank you to all those who make a difference.

Personally speaking on my caseload there is a child who is so unsafe that they may come into care because parents can't cope yet it took 6 months for a camhs assessment and they still don't have a service It's insane. Social workers and schools are expected to deliver mental health support to teenagers who are actively suicidal.

It does seem like there is a departmental problem in Solihull. It's the same area where Kaylee-Jayde Priest was murdered by her Mum and mums boyfriend not long ago.

BananaBlue

Although I would love to do something constructive, I don’t think I’m educated enough about the funding that children’s services receive to enter into a conversation with an MP about it.
I’ll just stick to what I know and have experienced myself.
And
Was it you who said they should refuse to take more cases (for how long btw?)
No it wasn’t as I know this is impossible and if it was done more children would suffer.

I have heard more than once that the weekly cost of a child in care is £4,000.

That is the cost of a high cost residential placement (though they can run to £8000 a week)

The cost of a foster placement is made up of the fostering allowance (around £300 for in house) as well as the proportion of the wages of every worker assigned to them - social worker, fostering social worker, reviewing officer, looked after nurse, virtual school, probably others I can't think of now. Agency foster placements cost around £900 per week.

WearyGranny
That’s so sad, hopefully things will settle down and become calmer for you all.
I imagine they are in the best place for them now and fingers crossed you get all of the support you need.
As for the 4K I have read this too. I think it residential care which is more expensive than foster care. I would assume it’s for staffing, upkeep/rent/mortgage of building, food, clothes, pocket money, social worker visits, child activities etc.
If the child needs to go to a special school or has other educational needs it could add more.

I didn’t want to derail the thread, but the SW/CAHMs situ is an example of how difficult the job must be and how underfunding/resourcing has caused and is causing a time bomb.
The same frustrations must apply to housing/school places/care homes etc?
In my job I get results for 90% of the contacts I make, solving problems, successfully closing a project gives me huge job satisfaction, I cannot see this being standard in SW.

Nor any of the related, publicly funded services.
CAMHS? - people don't even bother trying to refer in anymore. A specialist school place for a child with significant and complex needs ? - I doubt if there are 1/2 the amount of places needed, available, yet rather than uniting to work how how to resolve this, the DfE just sending Inspectors to tell authorities what a terrible job they are doing. Staff can spend hours on trying to find a place, but when there are 12 children chasing each place, the maths is never going to work out. Respite care ? Ha Ha Ha
etc
etc
etc
The concept of getting results for 90% of contacts made is just so far from the experience of anyone working in public services.

You also need to factor in the cost of LAC medicals, reviews, court hearings, multi-agency meetings. The payment to foster carers varies hugely too - more experienced carers get a retention fee, older children bring a higher allowance. The foster carers for my two pre-adoption was over £1200 per week.

@WearyGranny

Child protection social worker here. I placed a teen last week and the agency foster carer fee was £850/week. The previous child moved to a private residential home which was in excess of £5000/week. When I get service manager approval to accommodate on a section 20 (a voluntary arrangement with parents consenting to care) this usually is for in-house foster carers, when we don’t get any carers we have to go back to management for approval for an independent fostering agency then if no luck there approval for residential. They always want to explore/exhaust the lowest cost options first. Sometimes where there is a particularly vulnerable child who needs something extra (eg must be only child jn placement, needs 1:1 or 2:1) additional premiums will be offered when no carers come forward or we’ve even paid double the resi cost for them to have double the resource/keep another place empty to support the child’s needs being met which will push weekly cost to £10k ish (rare but happens)

Thr biggest issues with CAHMS is that there aren't enough qualified staff. If Boris chucked millions at it right now, most trusts still wouldn't be able to extend provision. In order for this to change training needs to be made more accessible again, and working conditions need to improve (not on about throwing money at more pay either) to improve retainment of staff. Basically the entire health and social care sector needs a huge and meaningful rehaul, and until that's done costly agency staff and private companies will plug the gaps and it still won't be enough to provide the level of care and support that is needed. I dont think it's a case of voting Labour either, they also won't bother.

I dont think it's a case of voting Labour either, they also won't bother

How do you know that? Have accessed a future parallel universe.

They haven't been in power for over a decade and apart from one or two in the shadow cabinet, bare no resemblance to the Blair Govt, also Stamer has first hand experience of care, as his parents needed it plus his sister works in a Care Home.

Compare that with say Sunak or Johnson.

Generally speaking, sick to death of people saying "but Labour wont make any difference" we will never know if we don't give them a chance will we.

Something has to change, the country is falling apart.

@Cassimin you seem to have very strong views on what SWs should do to improve things (become MPs, alert the public etc) and bypassing what the actual SWs here are telling us regarding who can actually make a change and the damage removing children can do.

I assumed that your strong views had some level of foundation behind it.

The U.K. is broken in so many ways.

The CAHMs thing is just horrendous I know I used it as an eg, but hearing 1st hand experiences is depressing.

And as others have said the same lack of resource is… well everywhere.

And it spirals into other areas, eg lack of social worker leading to a person with LD losing their home/becoming addicted etc.

How many Arthur’s are there?

What does the future hold for them.

How many Arthur’s are there?

Quite astonishingly, Google tells me there are 388k children classed as in need, as of june 2021.

With almost 690k referrals to social services last year, each and everyone will need to be assessed and investigated.

Hardly surprising mistakes get made.

BananaBlue

Just that my foster son has had 23 SW in the last 10 years so I’ve met and worked with quite a few.

My social work team should be 13 - 1 manager, 2 deputies and 11 social workers. We're currently 0.5 manager, 1.5 deputies and 4 FTE social workers. 3 lots of recruitment has yielded 0 new staff - 2 were appointed but both chose elsewhere. We can't offer any incentives, we can't increase pay. We're still expected to operate the same number of referrals as if we were fully staffed!

BananaBlue

We’ve also had support from CAMHS, which I sourced myself. Counselling from a local service, again sourced by myself.
I have worked with young people with neurodevelopmental conditions.
I have volunteered with Homestart supporting new mums
I have been employed by barnardos
All of my adult children work with vulnerable adults/young people.
I had my first child aged 17 and was a single mum so I know a fair bit about people who are vulnerable or who may require the services of a social worker, just not how much the government provides them with or how they spend it.

Oh and some of the 23 Sw have been amazing, some hopeless.
On the question of how many Arthur’s there are, my Fson could have been one if it wasn’t for the actions of an amazing SW.

@Cassimin which is why I don’t understand your viewpoint.

Cant SWs make government more aware of their concerns?

Then you said the managers should get SW to attend councillor meetings and tell them what’s happening.

I’m surprised that you assume that the councillors and politicians don’t already know.

You also seem to think that SWs are to blame as they aren’t doing anything to alert the politicians (you know those who have the power and means to make change) as to the conditions.

Only the politicians can initiate change in SW & rest of public sector. They already know as LA and SC do not operate in silo.
If they wanted change it would have started already.

Anyway I won’t be responding again because it’s going round in circles.

@HaaaaaveyoumetTed and @AndreaC67. Bloody hell.
Those figures are horrendous. And presumably the ratio will get worse as more boomers retire and EU folk leave.

How many more children have to be injured or die before something gives?
There’s no good way of saying this but I’m surprised there aren’t more.

What happens when those children grow up and raise their families? Many will recreate what they know if the support isn’t there.

BananaBlue
I understand that you’re not responding anymore as it IS going round in circles but I think I may have not explained it properly.
I know the politicians know but I’m thinking maybe more of a public show to ensure that the public know what’s going on.
A SW earlier on said she would welcome a panorama style programme. Maybe this is what is needed to shock us all.