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How do we protect these children? There must be more we all can do!

473 replies

AnotherThingToDo · 03/12/2021 15:09

I’m haunted by these poor children who have to endure this torture. How many more are there who aren’t in the news because they haven’t died?

Experts, people in child-protection roles, people with experience: how can people who feel angry and devastated by this channel this emotion into actually making a difference?

We hear time and time again how resources are limited. Is there more that society can do?

OP posts:
Cassimin · 05/12/2021 10:50

ElfontheShelfisLookingatYou

Your right. All of the Sw on this thread are blaming case loads and funding, not one has said maybe this social worker was just not good at her job.
In the workplace most of us have worked with people who are just hopeless and no matter how much training, money and support are thrown at them they will still be hopeless.
Luckily these people can generally just bob along, unfortunately in social work they can’t. Children’s lives are on the line.

Howshouldibehave · 05/12/2021 10:51

I’m a teacher and my frustration with the system is that consent is needed before you share information or speak to another professional about a child. So if I’m worried that a child is looking very thin or withdrawn I can’t just phone the health visitor or school nurse but I have to ask the parent for permission. If I could just give the HV or nurse a little nudge to pop round to the house unannounced wouldn’t that be better? Why WARN the very person/people I’m worried about?

That’s crazy

Flapjacker48 · 05/12/2021 10:55

@ElfontheShelfisLookingatYou How on earth can you "remove those things from politics"? You can't.

IknowwhatIneed · 05/12/2021 10:59

I'd love to know what funding had to do with proper lifting of his t shirt.
Proper investigation of the photo which to anyone shows a far worse bruise than a child's boxing glove.
The police resources used to threaten the worried family...

Funding means experienced social workers are leaving the profession, and reduces training - you know things like training in identifying non-accidental injuries. Funding means that you have 30 other kids whose living circumstances may be considerably worse than the child in front of you with a bad bruise, explained by an apparently reasonable parent who seems to be coping ok, funding means you don’t have time to do the multiple visits needed to get underneath what might actually be happening. Funding means you’re thankful for a case that appears non-urgent because every other case you have is on fire. Funding means your manager doesn’t have time or space to really interrogate your assessment and means your manager may be relatively inexperienced because all the experienced people have left.

Funding means the threshold for a full investigation is so high that a bruise doesn’t reach it - because those resources are being used for kids with bruises + poor housing + no food + no available parent. Funding means when your colleagues are off with Covid your workload doubles - and there’s little time to explore creative ways to do your job in a new way in a national lockdown because all those families on your case load are in crisis because of Covid and they were in crisis anyway.

It’s not that lifting a t-shirt costs money, it does cost time, and it takes experience to persuade a parent to let you have a look, and then to know whether what you’re looking at is serious enough to start the process of medical examination, investigation and removal. And all of those things do cost money so you need to be sure, because resources are tight.

If you can’t make the link between good, experienced, staff, workloads and quality child protection practice you should probably stabs for election.

Octavia174 · 05/12/2021 11:00

@Cassimin

Octavia174

How do we protect these children? There must be more we all can do

So this thread is pointless then?
The answer is in two sentences
We can’t.
We can’t.
Other than ‘ you get what you vote for’ and ‘contact your local MP’ nothing constructive has been said.
Sw spend years wanting to do this job, more years training, get their qualifications through hard work. Seek suitable employment, apply for the job, attend the interview, get the job!!!
Then do the job, get stressed out, put a lot of their energy into doing what they can, go off sick, decide they can’t cope so leave.
Then along comes the next one.
I read earlier about circuit breakers, I think maybe their needs to be a circuit breaker here.

Yes it is pointless, what is the govt's response? another investigation... coming to the same conclusions which will be ignored, if it wasn't so a serious and tragic issue it would be hilarious.

Cct breaker? you mean kick the can down the road, sure you can step in and support said stressed SW but he/she will then return to work and get stressed almost immediately, the working conditions have not changed.

Of course there are SW's who are bad at their job but if you have a shortage of SW's than you are stuck with what you ve got, the best will always be the first to leave, taking jobs in the private sector or career change.

If you want to address the issues, then you need politicians who really care.

SWLouise · 05/12/2021 11:03

@Cassimin it goes back to what I mentioned in previous posts and others have referred, no one cares about social workers until a child dies.

The role of childrens SWs in people's lives is unrelatable to the vast majority of the public, everyone whose been pregnant knows the value of a midwife, anyone that's been poorly knows the value of paramedics/drs/nurses/health care staff, people with children in schools see the teachers efforts, lots of people have elderly relatives needing care, people seek help from the police if victims of a crime. Genreally speaking of course. But who would IRL put their hands up to say they've had a social worker? I don't tell new acquaintances I'm a social worker through fear of their response, you never know what you might get called. It's a dark, shady corner of society where no one wants to work, yet when something like this happens everyone's got the solution.

As some PPs have commented on properly funding early intervention is key, we'll never know for sure if it could have saved the lives of these headline children but I know it would prevent a huge percentage of the referrals being made to my team if schools, HV, GPS etc etc had more services to refer to to help and try prevent things escalating before they to the level of my team.
The cuts in these services are simply robbing Peter to pay Paul.

As a Team Manager of an assessment team I be open to seeing some sort of panorama uncovered to children's services, showing the realities of my team day to day, but also something exposing the financial scandle of agency workers, what private foster care agencies charge compared to in house, etc etc. I currently have agency social workers I manage earning double my hourly rate (anyway, that's a whole other thread). Councils need to look after the permanent staff they have, then they wouldn't need to spend extortionate amounts of agency workers. The issue with recruitment would be solved if they invested in retention a bit more. We dont want fancy offices, crazy packages, just a safe workload. One extra social worker per team, or an extra team manager and splitting teams would in the long term cost far less than multiple agency workers earning £££, senior managers ae very short sighted. I have said these things until I'm blue in the face, every meeting and opportunity I can, people listen, smile and say there's no money... they aren't stupid, they just are either as powerless as me or godknows as it defies all common sense.

Octavia174 · 05/12/2021 11:08

I'd love to know what funding had to do with proper lifting of his t shirt
Proper investigation of the photo which to anyone shows a far worse bruise than a child's boxing glove

Even serious bruising can be completely innocent, if the parent and child tell you "i fell down the stairs" and both the child and parent refuse permission to remove clothing....what is one to do?

Proper investigation takes time, effort and money, over worked SW's have to prioritise and also make mistakes.

Octavia174 · 05/12/2021 11:10

it goes back to what I mentioned in previous posts and others have referred, no one cares about social workers until a child dies

...and then very quickly forgotten

SWLouise · 05/12/2021 11:17

@IknowwhatIneed

*I'd love to know what funding had to do with proper lifting of his t shirt. Proper investigation of the photo which to anyone shows a far worse bruise than a child's boxing glove. The police resources used to threaten the worried family...*

Funding means experienced social workers are leaving the profession, and reduces training - you know things like training in identifying non-accidental injuries. Funding means that you have 30 other kids whose living circumstances may be considerably worse than the child in front of you with a bad bruise, explained by an apparently reasonable parent who seems to be coping ok, funding means you don’t have time to do the multiple visits needed to get underneath what might actually be happening. Funding means you’re thankful for a case that appears non-urgent because every other case you have is on fire. Funding means your manager doesn’t have time or space to really interrogate your assessment and means your manager may be relatively inexperienced because all the experienced people have left.

Funding means the threshold for a full investigation is so high that a bruise doesn’t reach it - because those resources are being used for kids with bruises + poor housing + no food + no available parent. Funding means when your colleagues are off with Covid your workload doubles - and there’s little time to explore creative ways to do your job in a new way in a national lockdown because all those families on your case load are in crisis because of Covid and they were in crisis anyway.

It’s not that lifting a t-shirt costs money, it does cost time, and it takes experience to persuade a parent to let you have a look, and then to know whether what you’re looking at is serious enough to start the process of medical examination, investigation and removal. And all of those things do cost money so you need to be sure, because resources are tight.

If you can’t make the link between good, experienced, staff, workloads and quality child protection practice you should probably stabs for election.

It's exactly this. If you want social workers to stay, develop experience and practice knowlege make it safe. If not the only ones left are the newly qualified and poor quality ones, who does tha leave for newly qualified SW to shadow and learn off.

There also needs to be less ways for registered social workers to remain registered social workers in sideways positions without experience of frontline practice. We wouldn't need so many Independent Reviewing Officers to check we were doing our job properly if half of them came back to practice, instead of observing from the baloncies, emailing escalations to senior managers when a deadline isn't met.

I'm going to bow out now, spending my weekend looking a threads about social work, on top of the media headline is not good for my mental health and makes facing work tomorrow seem even more daunting than other weeks. It's been really interesting to hear wider publics views (MN version of course) and I shall go into my week holding a lot of the comments here in mind alongside thinking about how I can look after the wellbeing of my team with these headlines even more so.

ElfontheShelfisLookingatYou · 05/12/2021 11:26

Octavia.

That. Is not what happened in this case though is it?
The allegation was step mum pushed and assaulted Arthur, called him an abusive names and a pic was taken as evidence that eventually though the family sent was not seen.

A non blood relative whom dad had been with for a very short time, a lady whose first dc are removed.
A boy whose mum is in prison and work by authorities and the school to make sure he's OK?
In that "context" the bruise really needed proper investigation.
Didn't it?
Well a rhetorical question of course because I kmow it did and so do the authorities.

ElfontheShelfisLookingatYou · 05/12/2021 11:27

The context of the this case required more searching.

JeffThePilot · 05/12/2021 11:33

As a Team Manager of an assessment team I be open to seeing some sort of panorama uncovered to children's services, showing the realities of my team day to day, but also something exposing the financial scandle of agency workers, what private foster care agencies charge compared to in house, etc etc. I currently have agency social workers I manage earning double my hourly rate (anyway, that's a whole other thread). Councils need to look after the permanent staff they have, then they wouldn't need to spend extortionate amounts of agency workers. The issue with recruitment would be solved if they invested in retention a bit more. We dont want fancy offices, crazy packages, just a safe workload. One extra social worker per team, or an extra team manager and splitting teams would in the long term cost far less than multiple agency workers earning £££, senior managers are very short sighted. I have said these things until I'm blue in the face, every meeting and opportunity I can, people listen, smile and say there's no money... they aren't stupid, they just are either as powerless as me or godknows as it defies all common sense.

I could have written all of this word for word.

BananaBlue · 05/12/2021 11:40

@Cassimin

Octavia174 So nothing gets done? SW just accept it?
Presumably SW operate within a system/framework ultimately set by politicians/govt dept.

Same with most of the public services.

If politicians were interested the SW wouldn’t have to make noise, the govt would be asking about their frontline experiences and seeking expert recommendations then acting on them.

There’s at least one PP (you?) who seems to want to blame the SW for not shouting about what’s going on.

They probably are but as with police, NHS staff, teachers, they have no power (or energy) to make change and those with the power have no appetite.

If/when they strike there’s little support - (see Jnr Dr’s strike), they get told to leave if they don’t like it.

BananaBlue · 05/12/2021 11:53

I seriously considered retraining as a SW.

Caseloads put me off, because I don’t understand how you can have 30 cases per SW, your average 40hr week wouldn’t provide enough attention to all that.

Where you have poor working conditions, eventually good diligent workers leave or won’t join. I could see that job satisfaction would be scarce.

I imagine that simple things like calling CAHMs to refer a family in need is soul destroying as the first appointment will be months away because they are underfunded/resourced.

I couldn’t do that to myself or my family esp as it would have been a significant pay cut 😢

IknowwhatIneed · 05/12/2021 12:04

I imagine that simple things like calling CAHMs to refer a family in need is soul destroying as the first appointment will be months away because they are underfunded/resourced.

The reality is you don’t refer to CAMHS most of the time because there is literally no point, the family wait months (years) for an assessment and then don’t meet the criteria for a service.

I referred my daughter to CAMHS, the initial assessment appointment took over a year, my daughter has a history of complex trauma and has significant additional needs. I came out of the assessment appointment feeling like I had run a marathon. I’m a qualified sw with many many years experience, I have a Masters in Trauma and am a practicing psychotherapist. I had to argue current research, policy and legislation with a consultant psychiatrist to get my daughter the most minimal of supports. Most families don’t have the experience, knowledge or tenacity to do that - and social workers don’t have the time to do that for every family that needs it. So you look for other services that may not be quite right, but will at least offer something relatively quickly.

Howshouldibehave · 05/12/2021 12:10

I imagine that simple things like calling CAHMs to refer a family in need is soul destroying as the first appointment will be months away because they are underfunded/resourced

The referrals simply don’t get through to the point of being offered an appointment in my experience of referring primary-age children, as they simply don’t meet their threshold. Secondary schools seem to have more ‘success’ with their referrals for pupils who have attempted suicide but yes, those appointments are still months in the future. Things are at rock bottom.

ineedsun · 05/12/2021 12:11

Thank you to all the social workers on here (and not on here) who are doing their best in untenable circumstances to help families and kids in need. For the hundreds of lives that they have saved over the years.

I’m sorry that you have to deal with these sorts of things every day and I’m sorry that you are being vilified for the decisions that you make which let’s be frank most of the rest of us wouldn’t even try to make (and if we did, we’d make the wrong decisions at times too).

It’s very easy to blame individual professionals but if people want to actually understand what went wrong with the systems, maybe listen to the posters who are telling you.

IknowwhatIneed · 05/12/2021 12:25

I imagine that simple things like calling CAHMs to refer a family in need is soul destroying as the first appointment will be months away because they are underfunded/resourced.

The other thing is, it’s never a simple call. It’s pulling together the information from various sources to justify the referral, checking whether that information meets the eligibility criteria, phoning the service, having a clinician then phone you back, discussing in detail why you think CAMHS are the right service, following all that up in writing, having another conversation with another clinician to say yes you really are sure it’s for them. Following up with the family. A “simple” CAMHS referral can easily be a full days work spread across the week or two. If you have 5 people in your case load who need that support your whole week can be taken putting that in place and you still have 25 other children to think of.

Cassimin · 05/12/2021 12:32

BananaBlue

There’s at least one PP (you?) who seems to want to blame the SW for not shouting about what’s going on.

Yes,I’m sorry I probably do want some of the blame to go on this social worker and the one who accompanied her. I’m sure they’re both inconsolable now and in hindsight they would have done things differently but if this incident was taken one step further the outcome could have been avoided.
All I have read on here is SW saying it’s down to funding, to me it’s common sense.
As I’ve said before I’ve had lots of SW through my door.
My foster sons life may well have been saved by an excellent SW who upon being given his case pushed for removal.
My son had been born with neonatal abstinence to a mother who herself had been under the watch of SS all of her childhood currently living in a dv relationship.
I could go on about the 4 years he spent in these conditions under the watch of his Sw, never attended nursery, home conditions were horrendous etc.
Thank god (for whatever reason) his case was passed over and the new SW who took some control. She was only in her 20s but she was like a dog with a bone. This is the type of frontline Sw we need.

I’m reading on hear that statistically children who are removed from their parents have worse outcomes, blaming the removal for this. Couldn’t it just be the fact that the first years of their lives have affected them so badly that most of them will never catch up to their peers?
Funding probably has a lot to do with it but it can’t all be blamed on this.
From what I’ve read SW are feeling overworked and undervalued but when I suggest that they do something about it the reply is ‘we do, there’s no money’ and that is accepted.
As a pp said there has been lots of money sloshing around the last few years for Boris and his mates.
Maybe a Sw could become an MP?
I don’t know, I’m just throwing ideas around as nobody else seems to be.

BananaBlue · 05/12/2021 12:34

I didn’t want to derail the thread, but the SW/CAHMs situ is an example of how difficult the job must be and how underfunding/resourcing has caused and is causing a time bomb.
The same frustrations must apply to housing/school places/care homes etc?

In my job I get results for 90% of the contacts I make, solving problems, successfully closing a project gives me huge job satisfaction, I cannot see this being standard in SW.

For every Arthur there must be a load of kids who didn’t die, didn’t need hosp. Imagine that. And you as a SW have 30 or even 10 of these on your books?

I really felt I would be good at the job, but not under those conditions. I admire those who keep going.

Thank you to all those who make a difference. Flowers

BananaBlue · 05/12/2021 12:47

@Cassimin, here’s one: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Lewell-Buck

Maybe write to her and tell her how she can help in light of the 80 Tory majority.

Here’s Jess Phillips explaining how ‘easy’ it was to get DV funding during lockdown

mobile.twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1458033555737546752

You say no one else is bringing ideas, Ive seen quite a few here most of which are easily obtainable:

Prevention - sure start, mental health addiction services etc

Retention/recruitment - conditions, workloads (Ive not even seen any SW directly mention pay here)

Joined up services - database closed by Tories?

More training.

All of that costs money? All of that needs funding.

What suggestions are you expecting from SWs?

Was it you who said they should refuse to take more cases (for how long btw?) it would basically shut the service as you cannot instantly pull new SWs (or Drs or Teachers etc) out of your arse. Esp in Brexit Britain where you cannot even nick them from abroad.

I can just imagine the Daily Mail headline if any of this happened.

YouGotThisKeepGoing · 05/12/2021 13:02

I think it’s really very complicated. Unfortunately, many parts of the system are broken and ineffective. through not only underfunding but also insufficient powers, fragmentation and lack of accountability and clear structures.

MrsPsmalls · 05/12/2021 13:02

@IknowwhatIneed

*I'd love to know what funding had to do with proper lifting of his t shirt. Proper investigation of the photo which to anyone shows a far worse bruise than a child's boxing glove. The police resources used to threaten the worried family...*

Funding means experienced social workers are leaving the profession, and reduces training - you know things like training in identifying non-accidental injuries. Funding means that you have 30 other kids whose living circumstances may be considerably worse than the child in front of you with a bad bruise, explained by an apparently reasonable parent who seems to be coping ok, funding means you don’t have time to do the multiple visits needed to get underneath what might actually be happening. Funding means you’re thankful for a case that appears non-urgent because every other case you have is on fire. Funding means your manager doesn’t have time or space to really interrogate your assessment and means your manager may be relatively inexperienced because all the experienced people have left.

Funding means the threshold for a full investigation is so high that a bruise doesn’t reach it - because those resources are being used for kids with bruises + poor housing + no food + no available parent. Funding means when your colleagues are off with Covid your workload doubles - and there’s little time to explore creative ways to do your job in a new way in a national lockdown because all those families on your case load are in crisis because of Covid and they were in crisis anyway.

It’s not that lifting a t-shirt costs money, it does cost time, and it takes experience to persuade a parent to let you have a look, and then to know whether what you’re looking at is serious enough to start the process of medical examination, investigation and removal. And all of those things do cost money so you need to be sure, because resources are tight.

If you can’t make the link between good, experienced, staff, workloads and quality child protection practice you should probably stabs for election.

This.
endlesswinter · 05/12/2021 13:08

Id love to know what funding went into place under Blair and brown?

It was far from perfect but it was much better.
In my area had a decent network of family centers and sure start centers, all gutted now.

We had more administrative staff so social workers could focus on front line work. I had a social work assistant assigned to me who could help with practical support for parents to prevent cases getting to CP levels.

CAMHS was struggling but it was functioning, which it is barely doing now.

Yes we eventually got thrown out of our building because it was condemned, the hours were daft, caseloads too high even then. Practice wasn't perfect and children died. But everything has moved in the wrong direction steadily since.

There are plenty of solutions been offered.
Better working conditions, ie safe case loads. Time for reflective supervision with an experienced manager.
Time and funding for training.
Time to build multi-agency networks and a stable network to do that it.
Less box ticking paperwork more time for interactions with families.
More preventative services.

The solutions are actually pretty well known but there hasn't been any Will time implement them for decades now.

Campfirewood · 05/12/2021 13:13

Yes, social services need more funding, but there was a fundamental cultural failure at Solihull, as a direct result of poor leadership.

Sorry this is from the Fail...

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10271085/The-failed-Arthur-Solihull-childrens-122-294-boss-LEFT-trial.html

'Retired and loving it!': LinkedIn boast of £122k-a-year Children's Services boss who LEFT before trial of tragic Arthur's parents - as outrage grows over failures that led to murder of little boy who was on the radar for THREE YEARS