How do we protect these children? There must be more we all can do!

[AnotherThingToDo]

I’m haunted by these poor children who have to endure this torture. How many more are there who aren’t in the news because they haven’t died?

Experts, people in child-protection roles, people with experience: how can people who feel angry and devastated by this channel this emotion into actually making a difference?

We hear time and time again how resources are limited. Is there more that society can do?

@SWLouise yup.

@peaceanddove

Catipuss going purely by the stats which demonstrate that the majority of under graduates are still from fairly middle class background, I would hazard that many graduate social workers are MC. I don't think psychometric tests would necessarily be a bad thing to determine a candidate's suitability for the role, especially in something as arduous as child protection.

Peaceanddove - you seem to have a very dismissive attitude to Social Workers. I have commented on it before. Given your professed perfect middle class life with endless money and brilliant children I find it very hard to understand why you consider yourself such an expert on the very, very difficult work these people do. Unless of course you have had a lot of personal involvement with Social Services which you are leaving out of the discussion (which I can of course understand)

I’m happy to hold my hands up here and post that a neighbour reported me to the NSPCC, and that report was passed on to my local authority’s frontline response team. It was the darkest moment of being a mum when I took that call. My DD1 is blind and is being assessed for ASD/PDA/ADHD. Her meltdowns are absolutely monumental. And there are no fucks given about who around her she disturbs. While I am mortified that someone living near to me thinks that potentially I could be abusing my child, there’s a bit of me that is glad that the individual cares enough to want to help a child they think is in distress.

Lack of investment also affects thresholds for removing children. Placing them in care costs, whether that be foster care or residential.

Local authorities do not have enough funding from central government to be able to fund enough children removed to safety.

CrapJumpersAndTea why have you created this handle just to post this?

SWLouise
Couldn’t agree more but how is it going to get better?
I’ve read on this post ‘ government know we’re in crisis’ nothing gets done
‘ we need more investment’
Nothing gets done
‘ caseloads are too big’ nothing gets done
‘ ministers have shadowed us’ nothing gets done.
I don’t want this to come across the wrong way but there’s lots of complaining but nothing gets done.
The only answer I’ve heard is ‘ you get the service you vote for’ ( I didn’t )
What can be done to take it the step further to make things change?

It's obvious that far more money and far more support needs to be put in place. But it would be such a monumental task that it's almost beyond comprehension

Sounds good but arranging multi agency meetings and getting professionals together is a joke, either unavailable, on leave or on the sick.

I agree but if it’s legislated and professionals fail to adhere let them face consequences.

But, if they aren't there, then they aren't there - doesn't matter what the legislation says. If a social worker or a HV is already at one meeting, then they physically can't be at another, can they ? If a member of staff from the Nursery leaving the Nursery to go to the Child Protection meeting leaves children in the Nursery out of ratio, what do you want them to do? (The funding Nurseries get through the "free childcare" places, doesn't cover costs and doesn't allow them to employ staff to cover staff leaving the building). If a SW is in court for one of their cases, then how can they be visiting another child ? etc etc etc
Back to what people have been saying throughout - because of decades of underfunding, the caseloads are too high in all services (it is not just in Social Care), because the services are underfunded.

I don’t want this to come across the wrong way but there’s lots of complaining but nothing gets done.

Because we have literally no power to change things! Why do you keep asking this as if we are choosing to just complain when we could be doing something more effective?? For goodness sake stop pointing the finger and social workers for not fixing the problems inherent in social care services.

@peaceanddove

Catipuss going purely by the stats which demonstrate that the majority of under graduates are still from fairly middle class background, I would hazard that many graduate social workers are MC. I don't think psychometric tests would necessarily be a bad thing to determine a candidate's suitability for the role, especially in something as arduous as child protection.

So what? like all health workers, SW s spend many weeks on placements (170 days), where they are challenged beyond their years plus most aren't 21 when they qualify.

Do you think being MC is some barrier to being able to work with vulnerable people?

But agree on testing, we could start with the politicians who make such terrible funding decisions.

@Beechwood

Lack of investment also affects thresholds for removing children. Placing them in care costs, whether that be foster care or residential.

Local authorities do not have enough funding from central government to be able to fund enough children removed to safety.

But removing children in and of itself is, and should be, the absolute last resort. Children who are ten bed do not go to loving middle class households. They go to a vast range of people who at best are wonderful, kind and loving but at minimum are "better than their parents". Removing children is such a significant emotional and psychological event that doing so has absolutely got to be in that child's best interest, and that is so very rarely the case. Increased funding would have minimal impact on the number of children removed because those who need it are. Outcomes for removed children are significantly worse than children that remain with birth parents in almost all cases. A judge has to be certain that the alternative is worse, because we know foster care is bad.

@IknowwhatIneed

I estimate I would be sacked during probation for being far too fiery and outspoken and I've never managed that head tilt thing.

Yeah, you do need to be able to manage yourself and your interactions with other - your fiery outspokenness could get you assaulted if you pick the wrong service user. Don’t know any social workers with a head tilt though, certainly not in child protection.

No, I’ve never met one of these stereotypical middle class head tilty child protection social workers either, and I’ve worked with plenty, mostly because of the staff turnover…

I suspect every one of those social workers, including my current colleagues, if asked to describe me in one word would say “outspoken”. Which is true - not towards families, although I’ve been known to be quite blunt about some things. But I have a general reputation for speaking up about poor support and management, the impact on staff but more importantly the impact on children. I never got sacked or disciplined. It never did any good, either.

NynaeveSedai

Certainly not pointing the finger. Have you tried to do anything to create change, if so what was the result?
I’m asking the question because I and I’m sure others would like to know how things could be better.
I’ve had lots of social workers through my door, some excellent some hopeless. I know you are underfunded but I also know some are just not up to the job.
It seems to me that after these events ‘lessons will be learnt’ but they never are.
Maybe not you but some other social workers could somehow bring this more into the public eye, get politicians on board???
I haven’t got the answers as I’m not in the thick of it but I feel sorry for the SW and children of the future if nothing is done now.

In Arthur's case I think the lockdown was catastrophic. I am shocked by how quickly things deteriorated.He would have been attending school three weeks before the social workers went to the house. He was I think having some emotional well-being support in school which I would think would be seen as linked to his mum being in prison and the changes he had experienced but there were no signs of abuse when he was attending school . It is unlikely he appeared malnourished or heavily bruised when the social workers went in. He seemingly was then hidden away in horrendous circumstances . If he had been attending school it would have been a safe haven and he would have had an opportunity to tell adults or for adults to see signs of the abuse. I do think Arthur's case will be used by some to argue against any restrictions re covid and children going forward. (Eg school closures)

Which is true - not towards families, although I’ve been known to be quite blunt about some things. But I have a general reputation for speaking up about poor support and management, the impact on staff but more importantly the impact on children. I never got sacked or disciplined. It never did any good, either.

This would be true for me and many of my colleagues as well.

It isn't that we don't push back, I think people push back all the way up the line but fundamentally the government doesn't care.
And realistically the population at large won't pay more taxes for it. Particularly not for preventative services.

My social worker was fabulous. I was a teen at the time and he totally grasped the issue and represented my views when it was needed - v. complicated case.

Also not all social workers are great, of course they aren't.
The more pressure there is on social work numbers the more likely poor ones are to be kept.
It is also the more able ones who are going to be offered other positions outside of CP work.

Great post @SWLouise

Maybe not you but some other social workers could somehow bring this more into the public eye, get politicians on board???

People literally don’t care, until a child’s life is lost, but in a weeks time they’ll have moved on - and social workers will still be out there stemming the tide.

Politicians know, government agencies know that services are under funded and overloaded but they will look at anything, point the finger anywhere rather than admit it. Because to admit that some of our most vulnerable children live in imminent danger and chaos would be to admit that social infrastructure has broken down, that people live in extreme poverty in one of the wealthiest countries in the world, that mental health services are non-existent, that long term trauma informed services are rarer than hens teeth, that we’re now seeing third and forth generations of traumatised parents trying to care for children with no real support or knowledge of how to do it, and their untreated mental health utterly undermines their ability to do anything about it.

We’d need to acknowledge that, like it or not, some people need a huge amount of long term support just to function day by day. We’d also need to recognise that schools are overwhelmed trying to safeguard kids when they are ill equipped to do so. We’d need to accept that fixing all of this needs significant amounts of money.

There was mayhem on here at our most vulnerable being given £15 a week to feed their kids, so I don’t see anyone voting for significant investment in child protection any time soon. It’s not because people,
politicians, government don’t know, they just don’t care - or at least they care more about reelection, low taxes, smaller state intervention than they do about the life of a 6 year old child.

@HaaaaaveyoumetTed

SoTiredoftheStress

But legally they couldn't have done what you asked. Legally they have to inform of the allegation and assess. Only after the assessment has started, and if they have due course can they do what you asked. It isn't that SS acted inappropriately, it's that the law is insufficient.

Oh i did not know this, wow thats crazy. why give abusers the 'heads up'??

The law certainly is insufficient!

IknowwhatIneed

I hear what you’re saying but don’t want to believe ‘it is what it is’
I’ve had experience of the funding fiasco.
I’d only had my foster son for 4 weeks, just started settling in a bit, crying all night had stopped, started to eat, had a couple of nights when he had slept for more than 3 hours. When one afternoon got a call from his SW to tell us to pack his bag that night, drop him at school the next morning as he was going to an in house carer after school the next day. We were heartbroken.
In house carer had him a few weeks then around 10 days we before christmas got a call from SW to ask if we could have him back as she couldn’t cope with his erratic behaviour, he was 4 and had been moved 3 times in 2 months.
The only reason he was moved from us was because of money.
My daughter is planning on becoming a SW, she’s just finished her degree but thinks she’s not mature enough yet so she’s got a job working with vulnerable young people in social housing.
So I’m certainly not her pointing fingers and expecting SW to take the blame for everything. I’m here trying to understand why in probably 20 years nothing has changed.

www.change.org/p/uk-parliament-petition-to-have-arthur-labinjo-hughes-killers-given-a-whole-life-order?signed=true

@IknowwhatIneed

Maybe not you but some other social workers could somehow bring this more into the public eye, get politicians on board???

People literally don’t care, until a child’s life is lost, but in a weeks time they’ll have moved on - and social workers will still be out there stemming the tide.

Politicians know, government agencies know that services are under funded and overloaded but they will look at anything, point the finger anywhere rather than admit it. Because to admit that some of our most vulnerable children live in imminent danger and chaos would be to admit that social infrastructure has broken down, that people live in extreme poverty in one of the wealthiest countries in the world, that mental health services are non-existent, that long term trauma informed services are rarer than hens teeth, that we’re now seeing third and forth generations of traumatised parents trying to care for children with no real support or knowledge of how to do it, and their untreated mental health utterly undermines their ability to do anything about it.

We’d need to acknowledge that, like it or not, some people need a huge amount of long term support just to function day by day. We’d also need to recognise that schools are overwhelmed trying to safeguard kids when they are ill equipped to do so. We’d need to accept that fixing all of this needs significant amounts of money.

There was mayhem on here at our most vulnerable being given £15 a week to feed their kids, so I don’t see anyone voting for significant investment in child protection any time soon. It’s not because people,
politicians, government don’t know, they just don’t care - or at least they care more about reelection, low taxes, smaller state intervention than they do about the life of a 6 year old child.

This. Sadly, this is the truth. I'm not saying all politicians are aware, because of course many will have turned a blind eye, or in some constituencies, if just might not have crossed their radar quite so much as issues such as whether fox hunting should be allowed but if you go to any front line worker in any City you will hear similar to this.

I’ve just seen on the news that an MP in Solihull has questioned the lenient sentences.
Maybe the local SWs get get him on board to try and get some change.

I’m a teacher and my frustration with the system is that consent is needed before you share information or speak to another professional about a child. So if I’m worried that a child is looking very thin or withdrawn I can’t just phone the health visitor or school nurse but I have to ask the parent for permission. If I could just give the HV or nurse a little nudge to pop round to the house unannounced wouldn’t that be better? Why WARN the very person/people I’m worried about?

Social workers: you do a very hard job. So many of us have no real idea how hard it is. I was once asked my opinion on closing a child in need case. I said no way. Social worker told me she had complained about her unmanageable workload and had been told to close some cases. That’s not a solution!