Emma Tustin is a murderer

[DueyCheatemAndHow]

Finally. We can say it.

I've just utterly broken down for Arthur.

@Mufasa1118

I'm just saying that people think they are so different to Emma. But it is a slow slide to evil. Look through mumsnet. There are some terrible thread on here. Not just saying I regret having children I have seen people say on here: I absolutely hate my stepchildren I am jealous of my stepdaughter I hate when my partner shows affection to his daughter. I have seen a thread where a woman says that she wished her stepchildren didn't exist

We can't call Emma a monster without examining all of us. The change starts in the mirror .

A LOT of people are abusive to children. We need to look at ourselves too

If you can grasp it in another angle. This is like when we talk to men about men abusing women, and they say not all men.

We can't say we are nothing like Emma. All adults are at fault with the current huge scale of abuse of children. All of us. We all need to change our attitudes.

Yes there was a thread the other day from a step mum who hated her step kids coming round, wanted them to leave would count down the hours and was happy when they couldn’t come for whatever reason

A few posters questioned why she decided to date a man with children then but anyone who questioned it was shot down,

I do think once you have children it becomes harder to date those without, I have 4 and have been told I wouldn’t now meet a man without children as no man without children would be interested in someone with 4, I don’t want to date someone with children so have decided to stay single.

@Quirrelsotherface why are you so defensive. I didn't say women coming on here saying they are struggling being a parent, is the same as Emma Tustin

I said there are many truly dark and evil threads here on mumsnet, talking about hating children, wishing they were gone.

I also said that child abuse is a huge problem, much bigger than that one woman. Do you want to argue with that fact? If you want to argue, I can easily point you to hundreds of other cases exactly like Arthur, that happened in the UK in the last two years

Do a quick search

@Mufasa1118

I'm just saying that people think they are so different to Emma. But it is a slow slide to evil. Look through mumsnet. There are some terrible thread on here. Not just saying I regret having children I have seen people say on here: I absolutely hate my stepchildren I am jealous of my stepdaughter I hate when my partner shows affection to his daughter. I have seen a thread where a woman says that she wished her stepchildren didn't exist

We can't call Emma a monster without examining all of us. The change starts in the mirror .

A LOT of people are abusive to children. We need to look at ourselves too

If you can grasp it in another angle. This is like when we talk to men about men abusing women, and they say not all men.

We can't say we are nothing like Emma. All adults are at fault with the current huge scale of abuse of children. All of us. We all need to change our attitudes.

This is absolutely crackers. I can with 100% confidence say I am nothing like this woman. Stop deflecting blame from her to all women. Good lord.

@Mufasa1118

I'm just saying that people think they are so different to Emma. But it is a slow slide to evil. Look through mumsnet. There are some terrible thread on here. Not just saying I regret having children I have seen people say on here: I absolutely hate my stepchildren I am jealous of my stepdaughter I hate when my partner shows affection to his daughter. I have seen a thread where a woman says that she wished her stepchildren didn't exist

We can't call Emma a monster without examining all of us. The change starts in the mirror .

A LOT of people are abusive to children. We need to look at ourselves too

If you can grasp it in another angle. This is like when we talk to men about men abusing women, and they say not all men.

We can't say we are nothing like Emma. All adults are at fault with the current huge scale of abuse of children. All of us. We all need to change our attitudes.

Speak for yourself but do NOT lump any of us in with this piece of shit.

I said there are many truly dark and evil threads here on mumsnet, talking about hating children, wishing they were gone.

I've been here nigh on a decade and I don't think I've ever seen one thread like this. I've seen threads from very distressed mothers who aren't coping, but to call them evil is beyond the pale.

@Newpuppymummy

His actual mothers statement is interesting. She seems to be portraying herself as mother of the year.., I’ll never get to read him a bedtime story again. Well she’s in prison for 12 years for murder so presumably he would’ve been too old for bedtime stories by the time she got out.

It’s absolutely not her fault what happened to her son but given she is in prison for murder and was addicted to drugs and alcohol, he witnessed severe domestic abuse in her care I don’t think she is the best placed to be portraying herself in this way.

I can see what you’re saying but I think it’s very important Tustin and Hughes know how loved Arthur was and her statement is part of that. It helps to rub out their “difficult kid” narrative.

[quote Bagelsandbrie]@TurnUpTurnip I’ve heard that as well but it’s just not true. When I dated as a single parent I was absolutely adamant I didn’t want to date anyone with children- that may be selfish of me but that was my choice. My dd was 5 at the time, I didn’t want to parent another child, I was up to my eyes in it with an difficult ex and didn’t want another difficult ex added to the mix. I knew I could never love another child like my own. I was honest with myself and thankfully never had an issue with meeting potential partners- lots of people are okay with potentially being a step parent so it works both ways. (Dh and I met online and have been married 15 years now).[/quote]
Like I said I have 4 so slightly different, family have said to me that no chance will I meet a man with no kids now not having 4 maybe one is ok but 4 is a lot (same as she had) I don’t want to date someone with kids as I have enough of my own and don’t really want to bring anymore into the mix but even on here I was told I was very unlikely to find a man that doesn’t have kids as most men that don’t have kids wouldn’t want to date someone with 4, not defending her she is vile and this story has brought me to tears just saying why she probably dated him despite him having a child.

Mufasa

Defensive?! There should be nothing on this thread that minimizes in even the tiniest way what she did.

She isn't comparable to anyone, expect the true evil we have seen previously in this country.

Myra Hindley
Rose West
Ian Brady
Ian Huntley
Emma Tustin.

@JustLikea

Does this mean that so many children are living such shocking lives that SS didn't think it was bad enough to intervene.

Or were SS so incompetent that they deserve to go to prison for allowing this to happen. I really think those involved in SS in this case need severe punishment themselves

No many children are living unbearable lives and it's incredibly hard to identify which ones they are and impossible to prioritise them when you have in excess of 30 families on your caseload. A terrible truth is that children who are being abused rarely (if ever in my experience) hate the people abusing them. They frequently hate themselves though. So you have to be really listening and trained in what to look out for to get that initial disclosure - they're not going to go into school and say well X made me stand in the corridor for hours last night, because in a child's mind they're so full of shame that they did something so terrible that this was their punishment. Then if an abused child does make a disclosure whoever questions them will need to be well trained to do it because 9 times at out 10 they'll be conditioned to hide the truth of their life from everybody else. So the question does X hit you would be met with a firm no; tell me about your bedroom, or what colour is your tooth brush might get you somewhere.

Previous posters have mentioned that he mentioned to teachers that he was fixated on the fact his dad was going to kill him. This would've been logged and reported, but could also be explained by the fact that he'd witnessed an incredible amount of dv in his little life and he already had one parent who had murdered.

IMO for real change to happen in the aftermath of this we need to recognise the long term effects of abuse in that the adult that we despise for harming a defenceless child was once that little kid. It's frequently one long continuum. Social services needs a massive cash injection and recruitment drive to reduce case loads and go back to the days when SW's were forging relationships with families. And finally we need a huge recruitment drive for foster carers, it's all very well saying that in this particular he could've gone to his grandparents, but the next child may not be so lucky. A lack of viable options is what drives the social services culture of keeping the family together at all costs. It's all very well saying SS should've taken him off the parents but usually when people say this, they fail to consider where the child is actually going to go - there has to be somewhere for them to make removing them from their home a realistic option. Also there may have been a reason SS didn't want to send him to his grandparents we don't know this.

^Pulled this from an interview. Now tell me that the whole 'lessons will be learned' thing ever makes any difference, considering Victoria Climbie was murdered TWENTY ONE YEARS AGO. And what's changed to protect vulnerable children since their 'lessons will be learned' spiel back then? Nothing.
^
Ann Longfield, now chair of the Commission on Young Lives, said the case suggested a failure to put in place lessons from past failures such as the death of Victoria Climbié. “Very vulnerable children have continued to slip from view, and for anyone who looks at the serious case reviews, or hears about them … after a child’s death, you will see the same things coming up,” she said.
"Time and time again, missed opportunities, lack of coordination, lack of data sharing, the things that professionals need to have at hand to be able to protect these children, still aren’t in place. But whilst there is learning from the serious case reviews, it’s not enough to change what happens to protect these children"

@Mufasa1118

I'm just saying that people think they are so different to Emma. But it is a slow slide to evil. Look through mumsnet. There are some terrible thread on here. Not just saying I regret having children I have seen people say on here: I absolutely hate my stepchildren I am jealous of my stepdaughter I hate when my partner shows affection to his daughter. I have seen a thread where a woman says that she wished her stepchildren didn't exist

We can't call Emma a monster without examining all of us. The change starts in the mirror .

A LOT of people are abusive to children. We need to look at ourselves too

If you can grasp it in another angle. This is like when we talk to men about men abusing women, and they say not all men.

We can't say we are nothing like Emma. All adults are at fault with the current huge scale of abuse of children. All of us. We all need to change our attitudes.

I have to be honest, when I first read about this case my mind did jump to all those threads you talk about that we see on MN. I don’t for one second mean all those posters are or would be abusers or murderers but there is definitely a problem with regards to people prioritising romantic/sexual relationships over the wellbeing of any of the children involved, either their own or those of their partner. Lots of threads I’ve read on MN over the years have been extremely concerning from a child welfare perspective.

Mustafa please stop referring to it as Emma .She isn't worthy of such familiarity - she is a degraded low life heartless cow who committed murder .

@Lockheart

I said there are many truly dark and evil threads here on mumsnet, talking about hating children, wishing they were gone.

I've been here nigh on a decade and I don't think I've ever seen one thread like this. I've seen threads from very distressed mothers who aren't coping, but to call them evil is beyond the pale.

Same here. Been around here for years and years, never seen anything remotely resembling this.

@RainySnows99

Mustafa please stop referring to it as Emma .She isn't worthy of such familiarity - she is a degraded low life heartless cow who committed murder .

It is still her legal given name, whether you like it or not. Other posters can refer to her as they wish.

I think the whole of this disfunctional family should hang their heads in shame. The birth mother was in prison fgs! Talking about bedtime stories is pathetic.

Oh - you sound like you are making excuses for these SW's who clearly cannot see bruises? Who have had reports of Arthur saying he is going to be killed. That's OK though - it was reported and logged. Well done....

Regardless of money these not fit for purpose SW's chose to ignore what was in front of their faces. Just why? Maybe they were giving these disgraceful scum just one more chance. Easy option as it meant less paperwork.

And what's changed to protect vulnerable children since their 'lessons will be learned' spiel back then? Nothing.

What has happened is a systematic defunding of health, education, police and social work services. A reduction in community supports, an increase in the gap between have and have nots, endemic poverty, increase in levels of risk held by each of these professions. All the systems in the world won’t change anything if professionals involved in every aspect of child protection are stretched to breaking point.

@Franklin12

I think the whole of this disfunctional family should hang their heads in shame. The birth mother was in prison fgs! Talking about bedtime stories is pathetic.

Oh - you sound like you are making excuses for these SW's who clearly cannot see bruises? Who have had reports of Arthur saying he is going to be killed. That's OK though - it was reported and logged. Well done....

Regardless of money these not fit for purpose SW's chose to ignore what was in front of their faces. Just why? Maybe they were giving these disgraceful scum just one more chance. Easy option as it meant less paperwork.

What a load of shit. I'm not even going to bother.

IknowwhatIneed
Yes I know this but unfortunately reaching all of those educational standards does not always make a good social worker.

I find it difficult when I read stepmothers on MN saying how much they dislike their stepchildren but you can't really compare them to a woman who's abused, tortured and murdered a child. ET is on a completely different scale. Also it's OK for a mother to express that they're struggling with motherhood, even that they regret it. I didn't enjoy motherhood for the first year and wondered if I'd made a mistake but I still loved my daughter very much and would never have harmed her.

ok , she doesn't look like an Emma though , more like a shithead .

@Lockheart

I said there are many truly dark and evil threads here on mumsnet, talking about hating children, wishing they were gone.

I've been here nigh on a decade and I don't think I've ever seen one thread like this. I've seen threads from very distressed mothers who aren't coping, but to call them evil is beyond the pale.

Indeed. 12 almost 13 years on this site and whilst I have seen some worrying threads, nothing even remotely like this scenario.

I suppose once she's sentenced the news will be flooded with how we're supposed to feel sorry for her because she's being bullied in prison. Boo fucking hoo.

@Newpuppymummy

His actual mothers statement is interesting. She seems to be portraying herself as mother of the year.., I’ll never get to read him a bedtime story again. Well she’s in prison for 12 years for murder so presumably he would’ve been too old for bedtime stories by the time she got out.

It’s absolutely not her fault what happened to her son but given she is in prison for murder and was addicted to drugs and alcohol, he witnessed severe domestic abuse in her care I don’t think she is the best placed to be portraying herself in this way.

Seemed to me to be speaking about what Arthur enjoyed and what he was like rather than herself as a mother? Unless we read a different statement.

I don't think they'll be calling her Emma in prison though! Not too many there making excuses for her I wouldn't think.

A few people have said how happy Arthur was with his birth mother. Whilst we've had no evidence that he was abused at that time I don't imagine his life was idyllic. Far from it. His mother was an alcoholic. I've lived with an alcoholic and it was hell. I know she murdered someone in self defence, I believe. However, I read she previously stabbed a different lover in front of Arthur. Let's not pretend he was being brought up in a happy environment even before ET came on the scene.

@Mufasa1118 there is a big difference between not liking children and actively choosing to harm them! I don't really like children, that doesn't stop me wanting them to have a warm home, happy childhood and safe and nurturing upbringing. That doesn't stop me being devastated by this case. I'm just not willing to be a parent myself and I don't appreciate being lumped together with a murderer because of that....