Emma Tustin is a murderer

[DueyCheatemAndHow]

Finally. We can say it.

I've just utterly broken down for Arthur.

Every time a case like this happens (and they keep on happening, don't they? No matter how many times we hear "Lessons must be learnt...it must never happen again") my first thought is 'If you don't want to care for the child, who not give him to people who do'.

And then I realise that people like this actually take pleasure in torturing children. These people are amongst us - it's a horrifying thought that humans like this exist.

Someone mentioned family court having a lot to answer for.

Hear, hear.

Social services are in the direct firing line as the voice of the child in family court but the court should take the lead on safe guarding and actually do things "in the best interest of the child". Yes the parents and lawyers will argue on fairness for the parents but it should be up to the court to decide what is best for the child not what is fair to the parents.

I think it's all too easy to say "oh the social workers should have done more, they should be ashamed of themselves". I don't see anyone clamouring to become one though. In fact on MN most people tell their children to aim for a comfortable, well-paid job that will get them into 6 figures at some point. A lot of these public services jobs need an overhaul, a proper salary and normal working hours. Expecting people to work for peanuts out of goodwill won't lead to any improvement.

3WildOnes
I agree, more money better spent.
Not just increasing someone’s hourly rate.

Mm, yes forced sterilisation. That ended well the last time we tried it in Europe.

Godwin's law - when you have no argument bring in The Holocaust.

Get your facts straight before posting. This is nothing to do with genocide. Protecting children from abusive parents/caregivers.

Always putting their rights before that of the children. Get over yourself.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow Trying to make excuses is not the right way to deal with this. Again you do not know the situation around me but I do. I know what social workers have done and not done and as a result of a fair amount of interaction over many years and over more than just childrens' services, I do not have a good word to say about them. I would love to give examples of their stupidity but that would be a breach of confidentiality, a matter social workers do not seem to understand.
I am not scapegoating social workers I am relating my experiences but maintaining a lot of confidentiality.

vickyp0llard
I think the head of social services in this case was earning in excess of 122k per year.

Does this mean that so many children are living such shocking lives that SS didn't think it was bad enough to intervene.

Or were SS so incompetent that they deserve to go to prison for allowing this to happen. I really think those involved in SS in this case need severe punishment themselves

I don't mean the head - they always get a good salary anywhere - I mean your bog standard social worker. They start on something like 23k as a graduate? That's pretty bad considering how tough emotionally the job is. Not many would choose that option, when you can start on 30k to sit in a nice office to push some numbers around an Excel and reply to the odd email. Everyone saying that the SWs they know are crap and incompetent - something needs to change to attract the good and competent ones, or to train the bad ones into good ones and give them the resources to do the job properly.

@Malibuismysecrethome

Maybe we are expecting too much of those not up to the situations they are meant to deal with. If I had known then what I know now I would have dealt with the situation so differently.

However, the social workers have printed lies and that is not right at all

[quote User57327259]@MissLucyEyelesbarrow Trying to make excuses is not the right way to deal with this. Again you do not know the situation around me but I do. I know what social workers have done and not done and as a result of a fair amount of interaction over many years and over more than just childrens' services, I do not have a good word to say about them. I would love to give examples of their stupidity but that would be a breach of confidentiality, a matter social workers do not seem to understand.
I am not scapegoating social workers I am relating my experiences but maintaining a lot of confidentiality.[/quote]
You are not relating any experiences at all. You are just making vague accusations and saying 'I know better than you'.

You clearly have an axe to grind. Your opinion here is worthless.

@vickyp0llard

I don't mean the head - they always get a good salary anywhere - I mean your bog standard social worker. They start on something like 23k as a graduate? That's pretty bad considering how tough emotionally the job is. Not many would choose that option, when you can start on 30k to sit in a nice office to push some numbers around an Excel and reply to the odd email. Everyone saying that the SWs they know are crap and incompetent - something needs to change to attract the good and competent ones, or to train the bad ones into good ones and give them the resources to do the job properly.

But if we do that, who would we have to bash when something terrible like this happens?

I find it really disturbing that some people seem more angry at the SW than the actual cold-blooded killers in this scenario.

I find it really disturbing that some people seem more angry at the SW than the actual cold-blooded killers in this scenario.

Yes I agree. Easy to bash people from your armchair when they are probably exhausted and trying to do a really hard job - which very few people here would ever sign up for. Just like teacher bashing.

I work in a boring office job which I hate and thought I'd try teaching. I shadowed in 2 secondary schools and tried teaching a few lessons. Bloody hell it was tough and awful. Straight back to the office.

The only good thing is that ET young children will have a better life away from her

@roxyro

Mm, yes forced sterilisation. That ended well the last time we tried it in Europe.

Godwin's law - when you have no argument bring in The Holocaust.

Get your facts straight before posting. This is nothing to do with genocide. Protecting children from abusive parents/caregivers.

Always putting their rights before that of the children. Get over yourself.

Actually I won't get over myself when you are suggesting forced sterilisation, and I won't apologise for referencing the Nazis in that context. There is a reason why the only society that has attempted forced sterilisation on a large scale was Nazi Germany.

Most people whose kids are taken into care are nothing like Tustin. They are people who experienced terrible parenting themselves, and have mental illness and addictions are a result. The idea that we will can prevent harm by subjecting them to forced sterilisation is both idiotic (do you think anyone will engage with social services if they risk being sterilised?) and foul.

vickyp0llard
My daughter currently at uni hoping to eventually become a social worker despite being told by numerous social workers not to bother.
In all jobs there are good and bad, it’s just that when there are bad social worker it can be disastrous for those involved.
All of our SW have gone on to jobs that are less stressful and more money. Some of them have come in not fully aware of all they are expected to do. They are not equipped emotionally and have very little life experience much less knowledge of disabilities/ substance abuse/ financial worries.
Maybe by employing people who have more life experience is the way to go, not just a degree.

Evil. It is horrific what he went through. Theres not really much more I can say.

Tustin will need eyes at the back of her head now...and the so called father, I hope life is hideous for them both.

@JustLikea

Does this mean that so many children are living such shocking lives that SS didn't think it was bad enough to intervene.

Or were SS so incompetent that they deserve to go to prison for allowing this to happen. I really think those involved in SS in this case need severe punishment themselves

Everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that, at the time of their involvement, social services had 3 reports from family members about something being wrong in the household and 1 picture of a bruise.

SS did not have the text messages, the videos, the pictures, the accounts from neighbours that looked the other way, the medical evidence of salt poisoning etc etc. Those have been gathered because Arthur died. They were part of the criminal investigation.

There are clearly bits that went wrong (not seeing Arthur away from the address, not properly examining him when an allegation of abuse had been made) however you CANNOT consider the evidence presented at the trial as part of the information that SS failed to act on.

If people genuinely want SS to start intervening at an earlier juncture then we will all have to accept a far higher level of police/SS interventions in our families.

What's so awful is that they could have just handed Arthur over to his Grand Parents but instead chose to keep him just to torture him.

I agree @DaphneDeloresMoorhead
The neighbours looking the other way has made me quite angry today. I know this anger is probably misplaced.

But, you see it on here 'should I say anything?'

People often say to keep their nose out, or calling SS isn't offering support Op, or can't you try and help?

EVERY time you suspect any abuse, call SS. Let them decide. He may still be here if people had added weight to the evidence for SS.

It is not bashing social workers to point out that the grandmother photographed a horrific bruise on Arthur’s shoulder that reached both sides and yet the social worker said there was no mark the next day.
Stop being so protective of your own vested interests and listen to peoples very real concerns that these children are being failed over and over.
No one is calling for a witch hunt but to deny there is a problem is the problem.

In any other area people are held accountable and have to explain their reasoning begins their decisions. Why should social workers be exempt.

You cannot deny that Arthur could have been saved.

I find it really disturbing that some people seem more angry at the SW than the actual cold-blooded killers in this scenario

Its right that there is a review of what went wrong.
But this is why I, and I expect many others on this thread, do not become a child protection social worker. Its an appallingly difficult job. You have high case loads, and the case loads are really challenging. You have to work everyday with the kind of things most of us want to turn a blind eye to. You have to make decisions about who is a serious concern, which families have the potential to be kept together, which need no further intervention. All the while knowing if you get it wrong the consequences could be utterly appalling. Very few people have to make those high consequence decisions in their lives.
I have spoken to child protection social workers who say they are kept up at night over the decisions they have to make.
Oh, And you are often working with people who are hostile to you and deceptive.
Everyone who goes into this line of work wants to protect children. I worked in a social work department (though not front line) at a time when one of these (high profile) child murders occurred of a child who known to the team. The team were absolutely devastated.

I don't have any vested interests.
My professional experiences with SS have been uniformally appalling. However I can acknowledge that hindsight is a wonderful tool to beat people with.

I think people are sounding more angry with ss than with Tustin and Hughes at this point because those two have been charged and are due to be sentenced but ss haven’t really been held accountable for their lack of appropriate action.

I think it's possible to agree that social services is underfunded and that the majority of social workers are doing the best that they can whilst also agreeing that in this case the social worker did not do her job well. Neither did the police officer. Neither did the hairdresser and her boyfriend do their 'job' of being responsible citizens.

It's the 'Swiss cheese' theory of managing risk - you have all these layers of services and individual personal responsibility that should provide safeguards for children. Any safeguard has inherent holes, but if one fails and the others succeed, disaster is averted. If the holes in all those layers line up you get poor Arthur.