What would it take for another party to be voted in?

[patienceandprudence]

It’s rare that you meet someone who is very for either Labour or the Tories. Of course we’ll all have one we prefer but at the moment it’s a best of two evils sort of situation. They both seem woefully out of touch with people.

But will things ever change? What do you think it’ll take for them to change? I feel quite down about the fact that it seems completely impossible. Life in this country could be so much different if we had a few more options.

I believe that we need both major parties in rotation. I've voted either way depending on what we needed at the time. The trouble with Labour is they haven't been convincing. The Corbin and Abbot alternative was hopeless; Corbin sat on the fence and Abbott didn't know where the fence was. The current Labour government is stronger and for the first time in a long while decent competition for the Tories. Whoever is in power we need a strong opposition for a healthy Parliament.

If they can find enough half decent politicians that have more interest in actual politics than the gravy train, that would be a good start.

Proportional representation

@ThinWomansBrain

Proportional representation

Yes. Or some kind of progressive alliance.

We need PR urgently. Why should a party that only got 44% of the vote have such a huge majority in Parliament?
www.makevotesmatter.org.uk/first-past-the-post

Realistically for Labour to have a chance they need to win over the Home Counties. Which neither Corbyn nor Starmer have.

Only two countries in Europe use First Past the Post for general elections by the way: the UK & Belarus!

PR - indeed this is the only way forward. Otherwise we get stuck with this hopeless shower and the integrity-free zone that is BJ for the foreseeable future.

It would take a populist party who appeal to enough of the easily-influenced. They'd need policies that are a distraction from the real issues we face, usually based on racism (whether overtly or otherwise). It worked in Germany, it works in Scotland, both examples of a party coming from no or low support to an unassailable position in the polls.

@HarrietsChariot
I think we're got that already, that's the problem.

@CruCru

Realistically for Labour to have a chance they need to win over the Home Counties. Which neither Corbyn nor Starmer have.

Or for the Lib Dems to break through like they have in Richmond Park and Oxford West. Can’t see it happening under Ed Davey though.

So we end up with UKIP getting 80 seats?

The possibility of parties like the BNP getting a say? And possibly a bigger say if their seats are needed to gain a majority.

If Labour want to win they need to look outside London occasionally and listen to the voters. They haven't for years. Hence the shift to Tory voting in areas that never ever voted blue.

A credible alternative.

Eg many like the Green party for their eco policies but they have no economic understanding or business focus so they are not credible.

Labour no longer seem to even recognise a woman, which understandably has alienated many of the female voters, and Starmer is too weak.

Lib dems seemed historically to be the middle ground but have fallen apart in recent years as they have no strong leader with clearly defined policies.

To me this is the root of the problem, along with the fact that excessive hate puts many decent people off becoming involved in politics, and the current system encourages those who are self serving as opposed to serving the electorate.

We need a new system,

The LibDems got 3 times the vote that the Scottish Nationalists got and yet ended up with 1/4 the number of seats.

No-one will beat the Tories until they are seen as better but with a proportional representation system or something 50-50 1st past the post.PR then we might see real change or even better a system where parties have to work together for the good of the country rather than just blindly vote for or against on partisan principles.

@Pazuzu

So we end up with UKIP getting 80 seats?

The possibility of parties like the BNP getting a say? And possibly a bigger say if their seats are needed to gain a majority.

If Labour want to win they need to look outside London occasionally and listen to the voters. They haven't for years. Hence the shift to Tory voting in areas that never ever voted blue.

The Tory party has pretty much morphed into UKIP anyway!

Yes, there will be MPs elected from extremist parties but they would be a minority - I’m not sure we’d get 80 kippers though.

But there would also be many more MPs from the Greens, LibDems etc. And the whole landscape could change if people didn’t have to vote tactically, often for the second most popular candidate to get the incumbent out.

And it would give a voice back to voters in safe seats whose votes are pretty irrelevant.

@Pazuzu

So we end up with UKIP getting 80 seats?

The possibility of parties like the BNP getting a say? And possibly a bigger say if their seats are needed to gain a majority.

If Labour want to win they need to look outside London occasionally and listen to the voters. They haven't for years. Hence the shift to Tory voting in areas that never ever voted blue.

For what it's worth, I think it's quite likely that if we'd had PR and the UKIP vote had been translated into seats, we'd probably never have had the 2016 referendum. That referendum was Cameron's 1975 - a way to shut down the defections to UKIP and bickering in his own party by "letting the people decide". FPTP encourages people who would otherwise be in their own party to remain in or join one of the two major ones to have a hope of government.

If we'd had significant numbers of UKIP MPs, they could have shown what a shower they were. As it was, they were able to play the martyrs about their vote share vs actual representation.

You seem to be suggesting there are some parties people shouldn't be allowed to vote for - or at least votes for them should be ignored - that's not democracy.

Of course we’ll all have one we prefer but at the moment it’s a best of two evils sort of situation

I never really understand this. The Tories certainly always try to subscribe to what they call "clear blue water" - in other words the idea they subscribe to something fundamentally different from Labour. Labour are usually quite keen to emphasise their differences from the Tories (perhaps a bit less in the Blair/Milliband era when they seemed a bit "Tory Lite"), so I don't see how people (individual voters) switch between the two when they stand for such different things.

Of course unless you live in a marignal seat, switching won't make a lot of difference anyway since in many seats a turd with a red or blue rosette would get elected, due to our ridiculous system.

Another party will be elected when enough people get off their arses and stop passively expecting things to get better. UK voters have steadily given their power away, and have sat there being fobbed off with a broken electoral system, corruption and elitism for years. It seems many continue not to care and prefer to whine and complain without doing anything about it.

Change will have to be forced, collectively, from the bottom up. People need to remember they have the power; they elect their MPs who are there to represent their constituents' interests.

It is up to the constituents to say what they will and will not accept.

Following on from BorisKilledMyHusband, sign this:
www.makevotesmatter.org.uk/sign-petition
and get everyone you know to sign it.

Then tweet and email your Tory MP / local branch of the Conservative party and ask when Boris is resigning, and get everyone you know to do the same.

Join other parties and get involved. Ask questions. Demand answers.

Or carry on watching Toryshambles as if it was a soap opera, in the futile hope that Boris' replacement will be ethical and competent.

Like a lot of people, I'm struggling to find anyone to vote for at present. It makes sod all difference to anything, though, as I live in a rock solid Labour constituency and London Borough. There have been times where every single councillor in our borough was Labour. Not sure what the present position is, but there's effectively no opposition at all. In the constituency they could put up a stuffed dummy with a Labour rosette and it would get voted in.

I carry on voting anyway, as I believe it's my civic duty. Women died for me to get the vote. In other countries people are still dying over voting rights. I have to hope eventually my vote will count for something, somewhere. It may have made a marginal difference in the London elections recently where there is PR element.

As for what I am looking for:

Competent, intelligent, sensible and emotionally literate candidates and leadership with varied life experience and backgrounds

Well thought out and costed policies on a range of issues with a good plan prioritising the most urgent things, which for me are health (especially mental health, women's health, health promotion), education, employment rights, affordable housing, support for families, social care for the elderly, disabled and vulnerable, and the environment

AND (I can't believe I have to say this explicitly - a few years ago I would never have thought it possible things would come to this)

They have to know the difference between female and male and why it matters; they have to be prepared to defend women's rights; they have to grasp the importance of safeguarding.

No wonder I'm struggling!

They are all so utterly resoundingly shit. PR is the only reasonable way, but they are all so shit as to render the end product shit anyway.

Put lots of rotten veg in a soup and the soup will be rancid.

Another party will be elected when enough people get off their arses and stop passively expecting things to get better. UK voters have steadily given their power away, and have sat there being fobbed off with a broken electoral system, corruption and elitism for years. It seems many continue not to care and prefer to whine and complain without doing anything about it.

So basically there's no hope.

Another party will be elected when enough people get off their arses and stop passively expecting things to get better. UK voters have steadily given their power away
Other than by witholding their vote, how are voters supposed to protest when politicians aren't listening?

Labour and the Lib Dems have supported the Conservatives on austerity measures, on Universal Credit, on the Spycops bill (which makes it legal for spycops to commit a crime and to recruit civilians including children), with self identification that effectively make women's hospital wards, prisons and psychiatric units mixed sex.

Thats not voters giving their power away. This is authoritarian, top down politics that has nothing to do with grass roots movements.
Then they complain that people won't vote for them.
Damn right people wont vote for them, they are supposed to provide an effective opposition. Don't blame the voters for this situation. There is an authoritarian movement steadily pushing its way into the mainstream. Blame the politicians and civil servants enabling this.

TheInebriati

Sadly proving my point. Have you ever tried ANY of the things suggested? I bet you haven't, because "there's no point". Defeatist, victim mentality.

As with personal relationships, if you tolerate low-level abuse it will escalate to high-level abuse and then you wake up one morning in Communist China.

If you want to sit there and pointlessly blame people then carry on, you will get absolutely nowhere: that's not an attitude I want to convey to my kids. Argue, challenge, demand better.

Kids' teacher not up to the job? Complain and get them removed. Don't like a certain brand or product? Stop buying it and watch their sales collapse. Exactly the same principle applies to MPs.

Think your politician's a total waste of space? Tell them so.

From the Tolpuddle Martyrs to suffragettes to online campaigns, Marcus Rashford & free school meals, it is very much possible to influence and change a government's behaviour. The more often ordinary people get used to doing that, the quicker change will happen.

The only way you will get another party other than the tories at this stage is if they all happen to die in the same horrific accident. Boris Johnson could come out as a paedophile and I bet he'd still win an election.