What would it take for another party to be voted in?

[patienceandprudence]

It’s rare that you meet someone who is very for either Labour or the Tories. Of course we’ll all have one we prefer but at the moment it’s a best of two evils sort of situation. They both seem woefully out of touch with people.

But will things ever change? What do you think it’ll take for them to change? I feel quite down about the fact that it seems completely impossible. Life in this country could be so much different if we had a few more options.

The thing that baffles me most is election promises from an incumbent government. I mean, why on earth promise something at a later date that you have the power to do right now? It's never made sense to me.

And yes, Labour are dead to me until they resurrect womens rights and child safeguarding.

I might be wrong here but how long have convicted male rapists been placed in womens' prisons ? Was it first enforced during the labour gov or the tory one ?

@JohnKettleyIsAWeatherman the more right-wing one party is, the more left-wing the party that stands in opposition to it looks

@DerTrotzkopf

I might be wrong here but how long have convicted male rapists been placed in womens' prisons ? Was it first enforced during the labour gov or the tory one ?

It seems pretty recent, since The Conservatives pushed the idea of self ID. The MOJ is being unhelpful but several groups are using FOI requests to find out the details and have tried a legal challenge.

[quote Thelnebriati]@StormTreader Convicted male rapists are being placed in women's prisons and psychiatric wards. Women have been raped as a result of these policies.
Maybe if you talked to women and asked what we are protesting, you'd know how bad things are for us right now.[/quote]
I'm a woman, I'm not sure what your point is - I'm very aware of whats going on affecting LOTS of demographics of women thank you, thats my point actually.

Women have also had themselves and their kids go hungry, have no shelter spaces, and no mental health provisions left after they've all been cut - is all that less important than where people in prison get put? Rape is always abhorrent and should be prevented but I'm pretty sure rape in womens prisons was not a totally unheard-of thing before the trans rights laws came in.

So many DV shelters are now mixed sex so have fewer spaces available for women, or can't include children at all for safeguarding reasons; and they also have pressure put on them to be inclusive or have their funding slashed.
The policy is absolutely is causing issues for women in so many different areas.
Politicians have no right to be blind to the consequenses of policies, especially when they remove safeguarding and allow harm.

Personally, being called a person instead of a woman is less important to me than the fact that people rely on food banks, the massive lack of mental and social care, the fact that the govt didn't want to feed needy children, people being unable to heat their homes, people being unable to buy a home or even rent a decent one at a decent price...there's a lot that is much higher on my list than gender issues.
If that is your hill to die on you are oblivious to your privilege.

^This.

@crackofdoom Thats a ridiculous comment to make in the context of women being concerned about being unsafe in places like domestic violence shelters, mental health hospitals and prisons that should be single sex.

[quote Thelnebriati]@StormTreader Convicted male rapists are being placed in women's prisons and psychiatric wards. Women have been raped as a result of these policies.
Maybe if you talked to women and asked what we are protesting, you'd know how bad things are for us right now.[/quote]
This....

And that if labour deems this to be in any way acceptable, what on earth will happen to women’s rights in the next 10 years?

@Newnameneededxx Maybe they'd have more of a chance to include "being able to access crisis support" or "not having to survive on food banks in such large numbers"?

Honestly, you'd think from all the threads on this stuff on the site that everything else in this country was endless sunshine and rainbows until the trans people came along - I know a lot of disabled and poor women that have been reduced to despair over how the benefits system has been stripped, but lets ignore all THOSE women because we really need to focus on the tiny trans minority, right?

As a PP said, choosing to only be concerned by that one issue that I suspect you've never actually encountered personally in your life is privilege - lets ignore all the struggling women as long as they were born female.

FPTP always results in people voting for the party/person that they dislike the least

@StormTreader You couldn't be more wrong. Try to stop making assumptions about other women and their secret motives. I shouldn't have to explain myself to some random online who is trying to score points by putting other women down.

It is essentially nearly impossible for Labour to secure enough seats to form the government majority needed. It will be for at least 2-3 general elections.

The Tories hold the high ground.

Agree. So women have absolutely nothing to worry about and the future is rosy under the tories

@crackofdoom

*Personally, being called a person instead of a woman is less important to me than the fact that people rely on food banks, the massive lack of mental and social care, the fact that the govt didn't want to feed needy children, people being unable to heat their homes, people being unable to buy a home or even rent a decent one at a decent price...there's a lot that is much higher on my list than gender issues. If that is your hill to die on you are oblivious to your privilege.*

^This.

I don’t think anyone is saying gender ID is the only issue. People are saying it leaves them with no one to vote for.

I vote out of self-interest - which party will do the most for me and my family? Right now none of them will do anything for most of my family:

The Tories are making life harder and harder for women in my family with the UC cut, the WASP issue. They don’t care about women.

Every other party I can vote for _will make life harder for women in my family incl me because they don’t recognise our discrete needs. They tell me that I’m not allowed to raise my concerns about self ID, that I should just allow female provisions (that female members of my family personally worked for) to be diluted and opened up to everyone. This tells me they don’t care about women.

I have to say too I’m not sure any other group of people would face so much pressure to put their concerns aside for the ‘common good’. People who vote Green do so on a single issue despite the fact that economically they would be a disaster for the country, are they responsible for keeping the Tories in too?

@Ionlydomassiveones

I would vote for anyone who knows what a woman is and is prepared to defend women’s rights. This is a crucial moment in politics and the rights, safety and dignities of women are paramount. Statistically women keep families together, they do most of the low paid (and unpaid) caring work and yet their health, safety and well-being is continually ignored, overlooked and minimised. Just look at the aggressive comments on this thread to see how people shout down women when men’s privilege is challenged…

That’s what will change the vote. When politicians start listening to the majority not the batshit minority.

This.

@MrsPeacockInTheLibrary

It is essentially nearly impossible for Labour to secure enough seats to form the government majority needed. It will be for at least 2-3 general elections.

The Tories hold the high ground.

People were saying that in the 90s after the Tories kept winning elections. Along came a popular Labour leader with popular policies and he won 3 elections, over which time people were saying it was impossible for the Tories to win for 2-3 elections. Things change VERY quickly in politics, usually when the opposing party finally elect a popular leader and have some popular policies. Labour lost the last few elections due to not appointing a popular leader, just as Tories lost elections with unpopular leaders under the Blair era.

I think the cabinet composition should mirror the representation of the House of Commons. Might bring people away from the idea they have to vote for one of the two main parties because there's no point otherwise.

People were saying that in the 90s after the Tories kept winning elections. Along came a popular Labour leader with popular policies and he won 3 elections, over which time people were saying it was impossible for the Tories to win for 2-3 elections. Things change VERY quickly in politics, usually when the opposing party finally elect a popular leader and have some popular policies. Labour lost the last few elections due to not appointing a popular leader, just as Tories lost elections with unpopular leaders under the Blair era.

The Labour party under Blair was just the Tories only slightly less nasty and with extra warmongering.

The Labour Party under Blair increased standard of living for many people who had been just managing to get buy

As opposed to Labour in opposition

They were certainly more centre but the polices were not Tory just slightly less nasty

Labour will only be in power if they are more to the centre. Sadly those on the left would rather stay in opposition and plan the revolution from the back benches which does fuck all to help anyone

Labour's immigration, fiscal and diplomatic policies in the 90s are generally seen by the electorate as the cause of the current problems. Tories generally get a pass as they are seen as trying to repair problems caused by Labour. Until the Tories are seen as causing more problems than they solve they'll just keep winning. Labour needs to start listening and problem solving.