Kyle Rittenhouse not guilty?

[weegiemum]

How? He shot 2 people dead in front of witnesses, but apparently it was "self defence"?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/19/kyle-rittenhouse-verdict-kenosha-shooting?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

@WonderfulYou

What exactly are you shocked about? Your post is incorrect. There’s a lot of accurate information in these posts. Do you prefer to not know the truth?

Watch the video.

How many people did he shoot or shoot at?
What was he doing there with a gun?

No one else in the video looks like they even have a gun.
The entire crowd is trying to stop him and shouting that he has a gun.

If he didn’t see the blue flashing lights it would have been a lot worse.

This is nonsense.

It's awful, as weebisom says, as soon as guns are involved at all then everything is so much higher stakes and complicated. Having a gun means you can easily kill someone by acting in self-defence when they're trying to get your gun, or threatening you. Having guns all over the place and laws allowing them is partly why the US has so many homicides but also lots of other gun deaths.

It does seem like the right verdict. It's terrible that a black person in the same situation would statistically gat a worse outcome, and that should be changed - but that doesn't mean this person should get the wrong outcome.

The man he shot but didn’t manage to kill actually was a paramedic who was treating people and had a gun for his own protection

I read that this wasn't true.

@LondonWolf have you seen the video for yourself?

The facts were known 14 months ago, but for the Independent journalists who filmed everything that happened the prosecution would have got away with manipulating the everything. I do hope that both prosecutors are investigated for misconduct. As well as the MSNBC reporter who was arrested trying to follow the jurors home.

The prosecution lied in court about "drop kick man", they claimed they hadn't been able to locate him but they knew exactly who he was and he is facing other charges. They also kept delaying the trial against Ziminski so he couldn't be called to give evidence in this trial. The "manipulated' drone footage also needs to be looked into (I've sen claims they know who films that too) and I believe there is going to be a defamation case against Joe Biden for calling KR a white supremacist. I cannot quite believe the lies MSM has told about this case.

Fucking hell what kind of bizarro world is this thread coming from

Sure he's not a white supremacist, that's why he spent his time out on bail hanging out with Proud Boys flashing white power signs

Sure it's totally normal for a teenager to go to a counter-demo with an AR-15

This is not a concerned citizen protecting his own business from looters, this is a kid who actively sought out confrontation with yes an assault weapon, this is how the AR-15 is understood in the US whatever the technicalities (I am American)

I understand you're all mums, you're not from the UK, you see this crying young man and feel bad for him, but for god's sake please don't fall for this guy's bullshit narrative.

The idea that the gun charges were dropped were ridiculous too.
His barrel was too long for it to be illegal - that’s insane.

As soon as I heard that I knew the other charges would be dropped too.

@FOJN

He also shot them in his house, the point being that they were proximate to him, and he could reasonably have felt threatened.

Again no one is disputing that. I'm relying on memory here but he fired a warning shot in the house and the boys ran, he then shot the 16 year old in the back when he was nearly off Tony Martin's property. He had been broken into several times and had had enough but when he shot the teenager he was not in imminent danger of being killed himself.

I cannot find the case report. This Wiki article says he did both and it appears that he shot them in the house.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

Legal technicalities aside, it would appear that Martin was much more in a self-defence situation. Martin was in his own house. Rittenhouse could have avoided all this by staying in his.

WRT your other post, I'm not suggesting you intended to mislead, only that you might have done so by mistake.

This is what happens in a country where the right to bear arms is more important than lives lost because of that right.

I agree with those that mentioned the media obfuscation. Two people i know that we’re discussing this were adamant that this was a racial crime because the people he killed were black. When I showed them the actual reports, they eventually explained that they assumed it was to be the case because they heard of a backlash because no black jurors were to be included on the jury.

@Carboncheque

The man he shot but didn’t manage to kill actually was a paramedic who was treating people and had a gun for his own protection.

Can you provide a link to those details? Because all I can find is that he’s a career criminal who was advancing on KR and raised his gun to him at which KR fired at him. Gaige Grosskreutz testified to this in court.

Do you people even know who the Proud Boys are? They're neo-Nazis. If you're hanging out with them having a good time, flashing white power signs, you are a white supremacist.

@VladmirsPoutine

This isn't a shock. This is the system working as designed. Of course he was going to be found not guilty. A black kid in the same position who thought guns were 'cool' and shot people in the name of 'self-defence' would right now be either facing life or the death penalty.

I don't understand this argument at all. Should we imprison more innocent people because others have experienced miscarriages of justice due to racism? Let's fight racism instead and work towards everyone getting a fair trial.

The man he shot but didn’t manage to kill actually was a paramedic who was treating people and had a gun for his own protection

Gaige Grosskreutz was armed with a Glock and was advancing towards Rittenhouse with it.
He also has a hefty criminal record.

’ Grosskreutz testified he pulled out his own firearm because he believed Rittenhouse was an active shooter. He said was a trained paramedic and treated about 10 people that night, including one who had a serious cut after being hit by a rubber bullet.’

edition.cnn.com/2021/11/18/us/kyle-rittenhouse-what-we-learned-from-trial/index.html

’Grosskreutz, a paramedic from Milwaukee, had attended dozens of Black Lives Matter demonstrations that summer, acting as a medic and legal observer. He carried medical supplies, made livestreams of the events and wore a hat that read "paramedic’

www.npr.org/2021/11/08/1053567574/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-gaige-grosskreutz-testimony-kenosha?t=1637359850337

[quote WonderfulYou]@LondonWolf have you seen the video for yourself?[/quote]
Yes.

The man he shot but didn’t manage to kill actually was a paramedic who was treating people and had a gun for his own protection.

Which he pointed at KR and testified in court that KR did not shoot until he pointed his gun at him. I heard he was an EMT but I wonder if that is realistically possible with his criminal record. He was caught DUI 6 days before this trial and there were other unrelated charges pending against him, the DA's office has made them all go away.

Sure it's totally normal for a teenager to go to a counter-demo with an AR-15

I don't think it's normal for anyone to go anywhere with a gun! I think it's batshit because there will be always be people who die simply because guns are legal & situations escalate.

Thank you to those of you posting such informative explanations.
I have learned a lot from this thread

[quote Carboncheque]’ Grosskreutz testified he pulled out his own firearm because he believed Rittenhouse was an active shooter. He said was a trained paramedic and treated about 10 people that night, including one who had a serious cut after being hit by a rubber bullet.’

edition.cnn.com/2021/11/18/us/kyle-rittenhouse-what-we-learned-from-trial/index.html

’Grosskreutz, a paramedic from Milwaukee, had attended dozens of Black Lives Matter demonstrations that summer, acting as a medic and legal observer. He carried medical supplies, made livestreams of the events and wore a hat that read "paramedic’

www.npr.org/2021/11/08/1053567574/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-gaige-grosskreutz-testimony-kenosha?t=1637359850337[/quote]
Thanks. Sorry but I just can’t believe anything I read in MSM but it’s interesting to see all the different spins.

MSM? ‘Main stream media’?

Bye 👋🏻 😊

@lawnotorder

Sure it's totally normal for a teenager to go to a counter-demo with an AR-15

I don't think it's normal for anyone to go anywhere with a gun! I think it's batshit because there will be always be people who die simply because guns are legal & situations escalate.

That's my point exactly, yes!

Honestly, it is by no means normal to hear there is a protest and violence and grab an AR-15 and go check it out, not if you're an 18 year old man who has no earthly reason to be there

I know people think the US is like the OK Corral or something but honestly this is NOT normal.

Unfortunately it's untrue to say there is "absolutely nothing" to suggest Rittenhouse has white supremacist leanings.

The day he pleaded not guilty, he posed for photos at a bar making the "OK" hand gesture which has been co-opted as a white power symbol.

Photos here:
eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/01/14/kyle-rittenhouse-seen-bar-white-power-sign-proud-boys-song/4156448001/

and here:
www.lakemchenryscanner.com/2021/01/16/kyle-rittenhouses-lawyer-responds-after-teen-seen-at-bar-flashing-white-power-sign/

Now, Rittenhouse posing with that hand symbol really does not conclusively prove he's a white supremacist. However it does make it impossible for anyone to claim there's "absolutely nothing" suggesting white supremacist views.

I imagine posters above made that claim in good faith, so I agree strongly that it depends what media you consume, as to what you know around this case.

I'm surprised anyone would be employed as a paramedic with a criminal record like Grosskreutz?

@MaxNormal

The man he shot but didn’t manage to kill actually was a paramedic who was treating people and had a gun for his own protection

Gaige Grosskreutz was armed with a Glock and was advancing towards Rittenhouse with it.
He also has a hefty criminal record.

This. There is so much misinformation on this thread. Good and very balanced summary here by Bari Weiss (from before the verdict): bariweiss.substack.com/p/the-medias-verdict-on-kyle-rittenhouse