Curious about (lack of) mat leave in USA. How do women cope?

[Ed1n]

Reading another thread about WFH with a newborn which got me thinking. I’m on mat leave and cannot imagine returning to work at twelve weeks, which is I understand, fairly typical (even best case) in US. Any stateside mumsnetters able to give insight into how long most women really take, what is childcare provision like etc?

It seems such a different set up! How do you breast feed, cope with sleep deprivation and decision making.

Googling suggests Estonia is the generous country for paid mat leave. USA the worst.

I only had my dd 8 years ago and at the time I’m sure my employer only paid 6 weeks full pay then it went to a % then Stat. As the main breadwinner I went back 2 days a week after 6 weeks. I remember being stood at the station to travel into London and regular passengers looking at me clearly thinking I’m sure she was pregnant.
I coped fine, baby coped fine but was it healthy I’m not sure

@Delamero it still is 8 weeks full pay then a %. But out jobs are protected for a year. Not the case in the USA

Sorry 6 weeks full pay is legal minimum

@AlphabetAerobics you’ve hit the nail on the head for me. I fully support the choice and protection of mothers for a year but there seems to be a whole industry built up around “mum guilt”. I spend too much time doubting myself and googling and worrying instead of getting on with it! I’m not sure the isolation and self doubt is healthy. I went back at 9 months with my first but already feeling I can’t bear to return with my second, when I suspect actually my mental health would be better for it.

But anyway perhaps it’s a good thing, why should the rest of society pick up the slack both at work and financially for the women who want to play SAHM when it suits them, then just have the rest of the country pay up and provide them with the job they left back when it suits them?
It’s not practically efficient and is basically entirely selfish on those women’s part and revolves all around what they want without a thought for how it’s provided for them. Which is at everyone else’s expense.
Judgey much? I’m going to take 50 weeks next year with dc3, 18 of them paid , then when baby is 10 months dh will take 3-4 months paid, we will have a month of summer off together, we’ve already booked a beach house for a couple of weeks, and I’ll go back to work when bub is 11 months and leave dh to it!
Im in australia, the govt aren’t subsidising me as I earn too much, and work are very happy for me. It’s perfectly efficient for them as it would cost work much more to replace me full time, and any woman I know would leave if they worked somewhere that expects you back within 6 months. And, while this is my 3rd baby ive never heard anyone call wanting to spend that time with your baby selfish before. It’s not playing sahm, I’m not a sahm, i will be on maternity leave, and dh will be on parental leave.

I'm in the UK and my youngest is 17. I got six months off, and at six months I was on half pay. My first months pay after going back was reduced too.

I worked until the week before I was due in order to make the most of my time off - an office job, but not a walk in the park by any means.

Mama doctor Jones on YouTube did an interesting video on this on Monday. I get not everyone WANTS the full amount of time off, but it should be an option for those that do.

I, apparently the only person here, loved my year away to spend with my child.

I think it's fantastic that in the UK we can have up to a year off and it's not obligatory that you must take the year so every woman has a choice of how much they want to take.

My mental health was in tatters from the get go. Being at home wasn't the cause of it. But I really appreciated the time I was permitted off work to get myself sorted out and try different medications and therapies. It wasn't all daily walks in the park, but I certainly wouldn't have managed to work with all that brain fog from surgery, depression and anxiety from 6 weeks-4 months. I really needed the year.

So it's fab that it's available for women to choose how they'd like to spend it, or whether they'd like to go back to work sooner.

People tend to be talking about what leave their employer pays for. This has always varied greatly even within uk.
But the other issue is how long the employer has to hold job open to suit a mothers choice.

When I had 1st DC I was paid for 18 weeks (combination full pay/half pay) then I had few weeks SSP. I ran out of all payments by time child was 6 months old but I, like many of my friends, had saved enough money to allow another couple months off.
The point being my employer had to hold my job until I was ready to return.

There's a big problem with unregulated childcare in the US. Kids dying in fires / drowning in pools / going missing etc because they're left with shonky childcare because the parents have no choice.

See for example www.childcareaware.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/one-pager_-child_fatalities_and_severe_injuries-_june_2014.pdf

@KeflavikAirport
Or they spend all day watching TV in Grandma's basement.
Shockingly, pre-K (equivalent of reception) isn't a requirement to provide for free (some states) and even then it's usually only 2.5 hours a day.
Even K (year 1) isn't full day in some districts. And of course the children most in need of quality daycare are the least likely to get it.
Not to get me started on the way schools are funded in the US but that's a whole separate thread...

I think in America it is very much connected with an Your Employer Owns You culture. You're expected to go back to work ASAP, you can be fired very easily and so on, so paltry maternity is part of that. I imagine it started as a way of discouraging women from entering the workforce and no one's bothered to address it since.

I work in a team partly based in the UK partly based in US.

I feel so sorry for the women out there having such short unpaid or low paid mat leaves. They're pretty bewildered when they realise we can have a whole year.

But then I think that loads of their employment laws are weird. They can be literally fired at any time on the spot and have hardly any bank holidays or annual leave.

My oldest is 20 and women went back to work at 4 months then. I got the impression that it was 3 months for children not much older than mine

I went back at 4 months and just did it because I had to. Luckily I was in a desk based job rather than a life and death job or on my feet all day.

I feel for all the women in the US who had no leave and were back within the week.

It's important to point out that the US is massive and a lot of this varies from state to state. The blue states tend to have more protections and safety nets (still not much compared to most developed countries) but it's the red states where they don't offer more than the federal minimum where it's really bad for poor (and increasingly middle class) people.

Women cope because they have to.
I actually hate all this - oh I couldn't have possibly gone back so soon. If you needed the money for a roof over your head you would have had no choice. Some women will go through the same things you did and have to go back very early. And yes they will find it very tough.
The UK is on a par with some European countries here. The US has terrible maternity policies.

@julieca I hate that too, when women having babies now say it. If you don't know any different, and you need to work or want to work, you just get on with it.

@Peppaismyrolemodel You did everything you could to get your baby either sleeping through or with as few wake-ups as possible. So yes more babies did sleep through. Now because most UK mums don't need their babies to sleep through, many reject the methods to achieve this.
I am not arguing for either, but lots of things are possible to achieve with most babies including sleeping through, earlier toilet training etc if you need it to happen badly enough.

@YellowMonday

I'm in Aus. My company offers 18 weeks full paid maternity. We can also purchase up to 8 weeks annual leave (above our 5 weeks). By purchasing the additional leave - tax break too - it allow us to take 12 months at 50% salary or 6 months at full salary.

The Gov also offers min wage payments, but I earn too much to qualify.

Your company is great. Mine is offering me 12 weeks full pay - only payable after I've returned from mat leave!

If you don't qualify, do they look at just your earnings? I just manage to qualify but worried they'll look at partner's earnings and then I won't quality for it 😬

My office has a really nice pumping room which you booked slots for every day - they even had a hospital grade pump in there you could bring your own pump parts for.
So does ours. Plus leather recliners, large screen TV, coffee, fridge and free healthy snacks.

@laurenGame the income test is on the person taking leaves salary only for govt paid leave, if that’s your question. My younger sister was shocked by this, too sheltered to realise how many men don’t provide for their partner and baby so the mum can’t rely on that income and is stuck if they don’t get parental leave pay.

There's still a disproportionate amount of people without insurance. I met an American who moved to the UK for 3 or so years cos she needed knee surgery 4 times and didn't have insurance. I know of a British guy who moved to the US for his music career, he had a car accident and was in hospital for 2 nights no fractures nothing major. His bill was ridiculous. Over $200,000 or so and it wasn't a fancy hospital. He had no insurance and had to raise funds. Diabetes meds, IVF meds etc cost more than 20 times the amount in most countries. The health of humans is a commodity in the US.

@timeisnotaline

Unless you have a rare set of qualifications or skills (and you may) there is no way replacing most workers costs more than paying them for nothing all that time (possibly more than once). It’s a good thing the gov isn’t subsidising it, they shouldn’t.
I don’t consent to my family’s money paying for women playing SAHM for a short time and then very likely paying when those mothers want subsidised childcare as well.

First people expect others to pay for them not to do their job when it suits them, then they expect others to pay for someone else to raise their kids when that suits them. The US has it right, why should people who either both work and care for kids or one work and the other works inside the home pay to subsidise what is essentially a totally self interested lifestyle with little thought for the children? It’s just all about what they’re “owed”.

If mothers don’t want to work they don’t have to - but that doesn’t mean other working people and SAHM should pay them for it - and if Mothers do want to work they should, but that doesn’t mean those same people should pay for their childcare.

Pay your own way.

Gosh, I couldn't cope with non-UK mat leave. For both my DC I took the full 52 weeks plus another 2 months of accumulated annual leave and even then only returned part time.
My mind boggles at the insanely short leave in the US.