Spelling the word ‘God’ with a gender star. R4 ‘Sunday’ programme.

[EdmontinaDancesWithOphelia]

On the ‘Sunday’ programme at 7.30am

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0011bws

There’s talk of putting a after the word ‘God’, indicating a gender-free entity - to counter binary, heteronormative rhetoric and understanding.

Isn’t the whole purpose of an Abrahamic God the reinforcement of the patriarchy? God is most definitely a he. Our Father who art in heaven. We are not worthy to come to his table and he most definitely keeps women in their place. It’s one major reason why I don’t believe in him!

Father Christmas is male too!

Or Non-birthing Parent Winter Festival.

God is most definitely a he

Some people think so. That's definitely what the people that translated the bible want people to think.

Unless you do say “God star”.

Don't young people already use this expression? Eg - OMG, that highlighter/avocado on toast was god star. Or perhaps tier.

@Flubbah

*What part do you/they find offensive? Do you feel that people have a right not to be offended, especially when their offense is entirely irrational?* It’s offensive to say God is genderless to people who religiously believe he is male. Yes I think people have a right not to be offended. I mean, clearly the people who believe in gender-woo have a right not to be offended. So equally I have the right not to be offended too. It’s irrelevant whether the offence is irrational - I find it irrational for people to be offended by being misgendered, but if they still have a right to be offended then so do I.

What if it is offensive to say to people who believe that it is genderless to say it is male? You can't ban or stop everything someone finds offensive.

No one has a right to not be offended.

You can't ban or stop everything someone finds offensive
You certainly can. I’m banned from referring to certain male bodied coworkers using male pronouns, because they find it offensive.

If someone's being offended by their own scripture, they need to reassess whether that religion is for them.

@FluffyBooBoo

God is most definitely a he

Some people think so. That's definitely what the people that translated the bible want people to think.

And probably the people who made up the original texts that were translated multiple times before making it to the various English translations. The reality is that the original stories went through several generations of oral tradition before being written down for the first time, then through several different languages, we will never know what their stories were when they first made them up.

@Flubbah

You can't ban or stop everything someone finds offensive You certainly can. I’m banned from referring to certain male bodied coworkers using male pronouns, because they find it offensive.

If you think that is how things work then: I find your religion offensive, it is now banned.

See the absurdity of your position?

See the absurdity of your position?
I don't think it's her position.

But what if someone wanted to change the gender of any word that's important to them and whose traditional gender they find offensive?

I'm thinking about gendered languages here. In Spanish the word 'sun' is masculine, in German it's feminine. I grew up in Spain so to hear the word 'sun' being described as a she, is offensive to me.

If I worshipped the sun or believed in some supra-natural power it has, or whatever other belief I wanted to claim I had. Would I be entitled to campaign for a change of gender in that word? Or to make it 'gender-neutral'?

As it stands I'm actually Christian and don't have an issue with God being called a He in the Bible, although I have no idea what sex, if any, God actually is.

But to those saying we need to start taking steps towards de-building gendered languages, it's not as easy as changing the gender of any given noun that people use daily. That would mean changing the language and its grammar constructions entirely.

I grew up in Spain so to hear the word 'sun' being described as a she, is offensive to me.

Why would it be offensive rather than just a bit weird or odd?

I think it’s time to take the patriarchy out of Christianity. God isn’t male. “God the father” is a linguistic approximation, it means God the genesis of creation.

But it’s a lopsided approximation. You can’t generate creation as a male. You also need a female. God is the ultimate “they”! IMHO.

I love how incensed mumsnet is over something that actual respectable reputed theologians have been discussing and exploring for ages

Oh! Where’s the incensed thread - I feel cheated on this merely leisurely, Sunday morning chat …

@EmergencyHydrangea

I love how incensed mumsnet is over something that actual respectable reputed theologians have been discussing and exploring for ages

What? What do you even mean by this?

This whole thing about God making mankind in his own image is a mute point anyway..... we all started out as single cell micro-organisms. Perhaps that is what God is?

I am slightly laughing at the idea that being an actual respectable reputed theologian and being an MN-er are somehow mutually exclusive.

Only slightly laughing, though.

(I imagine surgeons, barristers, playwrights, award winning architects, physicists … also can’t be on MN - because everyone here is an empty-headed flibbertygibbet who’s never been near a university …)

@EmergencyHydrangea

I love how incensed mumsnet is over something that actual respectable reputed theologians have been discussing and exploring for ages

I’m not religious but I can imagine that however respectable and reputed the theologians are, if their debate goes into an area that you, as a religious person, find offensive, that will get a strong reaction. Although I don’t think this thread could really be described as incensed.

(Your device is havin’ a larf this afternoon BigWoollyJumpers. I know you meant ‘moot’ point - but EmergencyHydrangea may doubt your eligibility for serious discussion if the typo goes unacknowledged.)

We've been referring to G-d the Mother for years at Church. Not always. But we've explored whether they are male/female/neither on many occasions. It's not a new idea.

If it’s a language problem, it can be solved, surely.

Dear father can become Dear God, can’t it? Just remove all the dad references.

I would find it a relief if God wasn’t a dad. Or a mum.

Maybe something less role - identified could be more freeing.

@EdmontinaDancesWithOphelia

I am slightly laughing at the idea that being an actual respectable reputed theologian and being an MN-er are somehow mutually exclusive.

Only slightly laughing, though.

(I imagine surgeons, barristers, playwrights, award winning architects, physicists … also can’t be on MN - because everyone here is an empty-headed flibbertygibbet who’s never been near a university …)

🤣

@EdmontinaDancesWithOphelia

Oh! Where’s the incensed thread - I feel cheated on this merely leisurely, Sunday morning chat …

But, but, but... wouldn't God know that anyway?

He made us, one and all!