Spelling the word ‘God’ with a gender star. R4 ‘Sunday’ programme.

[EdmontinaDancesWithOphelia]

On the ‘Sunday’ programme at 7.30am

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0011bws

There’s talk of putting a after the word ‘God’, indicating a gender-free entity - to counter binary, heteronormative rhetoric and understanding.

So you don't think that in a group that also contains a reverend (who never makes comments like that), the fact that if I say I'm struggling, and they tell me to ask god for help, isn't shoving it down my throat?

I'm not leaving the group. I'm not letting one person that wants to keep pushing their religion, shove me out, when it's the best support network I've found for the course.

Yeah, Germans putting yellow stars on things always ends well doesn't it...

I think there's a discussion to be had around the very male centric way a celestial being of unknown and indeterminate sex or gender is described in the Bible but I think a gold star trivialises an important issue.

Yes, this is part of it; thanks, Beamur.

But I have a feeling there’s a fundamental issue around language - that I can’t quite put my finger on.

This is incredibly offensive to those who follow the Abrahamic religions. Or do their feelings not matter?

@AnnaJKing

I wish people would stop appropriating Christianity - if you don't believe what's in the bible, develop your own sodding religion instead of twisting ours!

As a Jew, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at this.

Christianity has its roots in Jusaism, but when the original sect believed that Jesus was the messiah that had been prophesied, they changed their name for their belief instead of expecting all other Jews to change theirs. They wrote their own scripture in the New Testament.

And I entirely take Alonelonelylonersbadidea‘s somewhat tetchy point about German being a gendered language.

But …

@Flubbah

This is incredibly offensive to those who follow the Abrahamic religions. Or do their feelings not matter?

Exactly, I wonder how many people who mock religion on this site use facilities provided by those religions and their followers? Church play groups, free food kitchens, foodbanks, fetes and festivals?

Oh sorry. I didn't realise they were saying to you. Yes I would say they were doing so in that case - as I mentioned in my post.

You've said it's one person. From your post earlier, I thought it was some kind of religious group and they were all doing it.

Although, do they know you don't believe? Just wondering. I'd tell them if I were you. If they continue, then I'll know.

It’s not often you see a lobby group so confident that they start rewriting the bible. I find all this transactivist thoughtpolicing very scary stuff. Reminds me of pre-WW2 thinking in Russia and Nazi Germany.

Language/translation and culture is massively important. The way God is written and spoken about should be discussed as part of learning about Christianity (whether you believe or not) but people shouldn't monkey about with it to suit their own agendas. If a youth group have come up with this as a talking point or something they're asking the church leaders to consider then fair enough. Any changes to the recognised format of 'the Bible' isn't done easily I would imagine.

*You've said it's one person. From your post earlier, I thought it was some kind of religious group and they were all doing it.

Although, do they know you don't believe? Just wondering. I'd tell them if I were you. If they continue, then I'll know*

Oh, my post was in reference to experiences with different people, relations and colleagues mainly. I think they've seen me as a soft touch.

This Whatsapp group is for an open university course, nothing to do with religion at all. They must know that most people there are not religious. They are the only person that does this.

It is what it is.

@Saisong

Germans marking people entities with a star has some weird precedents

You beat me to it.
It didn't end well the last time.

Older translations of the Lord's prayer refer to our father which art in heaven. God as object maybe?
People have struggled with the concept of God for millennia and have always moulded their image of God to fit in with the current zeitgeist. Adding a star as a signifier is really nothing dramatically new.

@Beamur

Language/translation and culture is massively important. The way God is written and spoken about should be discussed as part of learning about Christianity (whether you believe or not) but people shouldn't monkey about with it to suit their own agendas. If a youth group have come up with this as a talking point or something they're asking the church leaders to consider then fair enough. Any changes to the recognised format of 'the Bible' isn't done easily I would imagine.

Surely making it align better with the original can't be classed as 'monkeying around with it'?

In fact the translations probably contain much more monkeying around.

Star at the end each time might make it really hard to read? Star in the middle is easier to read.

There is no right not to be offended.

These kids have a right to write God*, I have a write to disagree and make jokes about it.

People have a right to believe in God, I have right to think God is made up and make jokes about it.

I think having it at the end will have me looking for a footnote each time

@AnnaJKing

G-d has no gender anyway. The English translation of the Bible isn’t definitive, it was translated and altered by men.

The New Testament was translated and altered many times, with various interpretations put in for political gain. The Old Testament has been through multiple translations and changes, with even variations from the most recent source material (Jewish religious texts), let alone the far older changes.

It was also of course created by men in the first place and religions tend to represent and reinforce the culture they were created by, so as ?almost? all early civilizations were highly patriarchal it is no surprise that the religions they created reflect that.

@Flubbah

This is incredibly offensive to those who follow the Abrahamic religions. Or do their feelings not matter?

What part do you/they find offensive? Do you feel that people have a right not to be offended, especially when their offense is entirely irrational?

Jewish people and many Muslims when talking of God, use Gd because it is considered disrespectful to say, write God. Stars have been used forever.*

I think G-d is what (some?) Jewish people use for that, not G*d.

G-d has no gender anyway. The English translation of the Bible isn’t definitive, it was translated and altered by men.

This is being proposed in Germany though, where God is a masculine noun. I don’t know why a star would be better than pushing for it to be a neutral noun though, especially since I assume the masculine form would be used even when talking about a specifically female god, Hera for example. Although I admit I know absolutely nothing about how feasible it is to change the gender of nouns in German.

The only thing more ridiculous than doing this, would be believing in god in the first place.

What part do you/they find offensive?
Do you feel that people have a right not to be offended, especially when their offense is entirely irrational?
It’s offensive to say God is genderless to people who religiously believe he is male. Yes I think people have a right not to be offended. I mean, clearly the people who believe in gender-woo have a right not to be offended. So equally I have the right not to be offended too. It’s irrelevant whether the offence is irrational - I find it irrational for people to be offended by being misgendered, but if they still have a right to be offended then so do I.

This discriminates against people who don't have emoji keyboards. Unless they're proposing to use an asterisk?

@Sittinginthesand

Dear high-ranking-person and non-birthing parent of personkind, Forgive our foolish ways!

🤣🤣