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Original poster

Whole class punishments?

122 replies

WholeClassKeptIn · 17/10/2021 19:34

Where do we all stand on whole class punishments? I thought they weren't done anymore but I don't think they're outright banned are they?

My daughter is in yr 5 and is quite rule driven. She has an amazing teacher and I'm happy with school in general and bit worried about becoming "that parent."

But... the teacher I think (obviously hearing this from a child!) Is keeping the children in at break and lunch if the class is noisy. The problem is she knows she is not talking (or her friend next to her) and the sense of injustice is huge. They hate being kept in when they haven't broken any rules.

I know its not long (under 10mins I think) but to a child its ages. she's feeling anxious when other children start talking that she will miss part of her break. When she comes home if it's a "kept in" day it's all she talks about. Its about once a week so far.

This week they were told they were missing "8 minutes" of break the next day (15mins). She didn't want to go to school the next day . I know this is an overreaction but she was worried about going in to be told off for something she's not doing. As it happened she then went to queue for toast after missing the first half, but she waited the reat of break and didn't get toast or to play. She came home quite upset.

I know to adults this seems a small thing and I know it must be incredibly hard for the teacher. But its getting to her as she can't do anything to stop it however quiet she is!

Any thoughts?

OP posts:
EmeraldShamrock · 17/10/2021 20:46

Very unfair especially during PE.
DD has a muscle and coordination disorder he PE teacher loves class punishment.

bunnytheegghunter · 17/10/2021 20:48

We are finding it hard going this year, my daughter is year 3 and is very upset by the whole class punishment that is happening this year. She is a quiet shy girl who is usually well behaved unfortunately there are a few Characters in her class who are not. The NQT is punishing the whole class. My daughter was mortified the first time as she has never lost any play before and now it's a regular thing she is angry. She feels it is very unjust, As do I! Have been waiting for parents evening to raise it with the teacher!

GlitteryFlaps · 17/10/2021 20:50

I have just found the behaviour policy on my children’s school website. Have you had a look to see if you can see your school’s policy? It should mention on there if it’s acceptable at the school. Ours focuses on praising good behaviour before dealing with any bad behaviour on an individual basis, as the staff take pride in knowing the children individually.

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LolaSmiles · 17/10/2021 20:52

Any parent who asks for more information and reasonably challenges the school is not being 'that parent'.

'That parent' is the parent who calls up for the 4th time term demanding for their DC's seating plan place to revolve around which friend they are speaking to. 'That parent' is the parent who calls up demanding meetings or being frothy because their child said they didn't do anything and their child would never lie, so the teacher must be awful. 'That parent' is the parent who backs their child in ignoring countless school rules.

A parent who queries a situation like this is a parent seeking information in a reasonable way.

Original poster
WholeClassKeptIn · 17/10/2021 20:53

Ive just had a look at behaviour policy. Nothing about whole class punishments.

Kids go on a "yellow card" warning for individual behaviour and are supposed to be able to work back off it - and then lose playtime as an individual punishment.

I actually hate loss of playtime for any kid as a fidgetth noisy kid probably needs it more than anyone but I haven't gone there...

OP posts:
Original poster
WholeClassKeptIn · 17/10/2021 20:55

Thanks Lola. In my email I did focus on my child being upset/anxious rather than anything but I guess it might feel like criticism.

If as it seeems lots of schools do this will it just be that I say "I dont like this." And they say, "This is what we do." And then that's it?!

OP posts:
VladmirsPoutine · 17/10/2021 20:56

Have been waiting for parents evening to raise it with the teacher!

Why not just e-mail them?

campion · 17/10/2021 20:56

@Tigerwhocameforsupper

I’m guessing you’re not a teacher

You'd be guessing wrong then!! Of course you need control in a classroom in order to get something done. But I'm not sure your very narrow definition of control is helpful. Classroom management requires many skills all at once, one of which is to be aware of, and on top of, what each child is doing. You may need to nip some behaviours in the bud before they escalate into greater problems.

However children are brought up, teachers have to deal with the children in front of them.
But whole class punishments are unfair and, judging by comments here, probably counter productive.

RaoulDufysCat · 17/10/2021 20:57

I would go in and talk to them. This happened to DD a few times and after the third or fourth occasion I went in and explained what was going on and how it was making DD feel. Never happened again. It obviously wasn't fixing the issue in any case, and was actually kind of counterproductive. DD was rule driven to the point of anxiety and wasn't doing anything wrong (acknowledged by the school) but those who were maybe low-level misbehaving seemed to get worse the more it happened (they're punishing us all anyway so what's the point etc).

I also think loss of break is a poor punishment. It is very often the children who find it difficult to keep quiet or behave well who need break time most of all if they are to behave reasonably well for the rest of the day.

Original poster
WholeClassKeptIn · 17/10/2021 20:57

I don't think parents evening is the time to raise these issues as dont think anything should be a big surprise and there's only 5-10mins which is why I emailed. They say they always want to hear if there's a problem.... but it feels so much more formal than catching a teacher at the end of day like in infants!

OP posts:
Tigerwhocameforsupper · 17/10/2021 21:00

[quote campion]@Tigerwhocameforsupper

I’m guessing you’re not a teacher

You'd be guessing wrong then!! Of course you need control in a classroom in order to get something done. But I'm not sure your very narrow definition of control is helpful. Classroom management requires many skills all at once, one of which is to be aware of, and on top of, what each child is doing. You may need to nip some behaviours in the bud before they escalate into greater problems.

However children are brought up, teachers have to deal with the children in front of them.
But whole class punishments are unfair and, judging by comments here, probably counter productive.[/quote]
I do agree that whole class punishments shouldn’t be used, but I can also see why a teacher would feel like they have no choice.

I’ve been teaching 13 years, I think I’ve given a whole class punishment maybe 5-6 times in that period. Usually when having to cover a class in another department where I have no knowledge of the children’s names and the behaviour can be appalling in cover lessons.

Original poster
WholeClassKeptIn · 17/10/2021 21:01

Raoul - Ive emailed and am expecting a call on Monday.

I completely agree about loss of break but that's not my battle to fight. Our school is wedded to that and I completely agree its counter productive for those who need the free time to run around and escape the classroom.

Mine is very rule driven/anxious but comes across happy and compliant so they wouldn't know. Im a bit worried they'll think its on me rather than her but hey ho!

OP posts:
PurpleOkapi · 17/10/2021 21:03

Some of my old teachers did this, too, and even as a five-year-old I could see the injustice of it. But a lot of children can't, because they're children, and I suppose that's the idea. Telling them "I'm punishing you because Billy misbehaved" just made them angry with Billy, resulting in needless fights, bullying, and exclusion. It's a really sadistic way for lazy teachers to manipulate students into doing their job for them, in a way that's much more harmful to all children involved than just making Billy miss break occasionally would be.

LolaSmiles · 17/10/2021 21:04

WholeClassKeptIn
I've never known a school where whole class punishments are covered in the behaviour policy.

I've had some classes where I would wait until students were packed away before dismissing. There'd be 2 or 3 students who were ready so I'd give them a non-verbal signal signal leave, they'd leave and the rest of the class who were being noisy didn't even notice. Grin

I would imagine you'll either get told that your DC has been kept in because they have been doing something they shouldn't, or the school will confirm that whole class punishments are not in the policy and they will have a word with the teacher.

SockFluffInTheBath · 17/10/2021 21:05

It’s lazy teaching much like the buddy system of parking an angelic child beside a not-angelic child. Marvellous learning opportunities in theory, in practice they’re just unfair loading. I hate both as a parent and as a teacher and have complained about both in my DCs primary school.

SusannaOwens · 17/10/2021 21:05

This has happened on and off all the way through DD's school life, she has anxiety and has always worried about being punished at school. I've not been able to say, if you behave you'll be fine, because she was behaving and still getting punished. She is 16 and still has anxiety at school. It was forbidden at secondary, but some teachers still persisted. There was one teacher who was making it clear one child (who obviously had a lot going on) was responsible, no surprise that this child was bullied.

PurpleOkapi · 17/10/2021 21:07

@Tigerwhocameforsupper

I’ve been teaching 13 years, I think I’ve given a whole class punishment maybe 5-6 times in that period. Usually when having to cover a class in another department where I have no knowledge of the children’s names and the behaviour can be appalling in cover lessons.

Why do you need to know their names to punish them appropriately? If the ginger boy in the striped shirt is being disruptive, the ginger boy in the striped shirt gets punished. If the brunette girl in the yellow dress won't stop talking, the brunette girl in the yellow dress gets punished. I don't see how knowing their names would change anything here. Surely you could figure out what those individuals' names were if you had to record the punishments somewhere.

Pumperthepumper · 17/10/2021 21:08

@SockFluffInTheBath

It’s lazy teaching much like the buddy system of parking an angelic child beside a not-angelic child. Marvellous learning opportunities in theory, in practice they’re just unfair loading. I hate both as a parent and as a teacher and have complained about both in my DCs primary school.
If peer-to-peer learning isn’t working then you’re not doing it right.
Kljnmw3459 · 17/10/2021 21:08

This is happening at my DC's class as well. I don't know how efficient it is.

Original poster
WholeClassKeptIn · 17/10/2021 21:12

It's the actual teacher ringing back. I guess I can just reiterate its making her anxious and hope that it stops? I'm not at all suggesting my child never talks when she shouldn't (she is very rule driven though and wouldn't intentionally). From her recollection this has been 4 or 5 times (In 5 weeks) and most recently being warned the day before that the whole class was missing half of break that tipped her over the edge.

It's definitely whole class rather than her/her table.

I am so well aware parents always complain to teachers and its a difficult job. I actually think on the whole she sounds great so dont want her to think I am on the warpath either. But I do want this changed!

OP posts:
Original poster
WholeClassKeptIn · 17/10/2021 21:13

Susanna - thats why its tricky isn't it. Sbe behaves but still lives in fear of "being kept in." And feels like she's being told off/punished.

OP posts:
LolaSmiles · 17/10/2021 21:15

If peer-to-peer learning isn’t working then you’re not doing it right.
Peer support is not the same as pairing the quiet and compliant students with the students who misbehave, often done in the hope that either the compliant student will manage the behaviour of their peer, or worse that the quiet student won't complain about their peer and the teacher can then pretend there's no issue.
Too often it's lazy staff expecting quiet/compliant students (often girls) to put up with and manage the behaviour of their peers.

Pumperthepumper · 17/10/2021 21:16

@LolaSmiles

If peer-to-peer learning isn’t working then you’re not doing it right. Peer support is not the same as pairing the quiet and compliant students with the students who misbehave, often done in the hope that either the compliant student will manage the behaviour of their peer, or worse that the quiet student won't complain about their peer and the teacher can then pretend there's no issue. Too often it's lazy staff expecting quiet/compliant students (often girls) to put up with and manage the behaviour of their peers.
No, the poster said it was for ‘learning opportunities’ not for behavioural management.
Jenster03 · 17/10/2021 21:30

Regarding kids losing break time if they get punished, I'd be interested to know what a more appropriate punishment would be.
Kids care about breaktime, that's why they lose it if they misbehave.
You can't win can you?

Pumperthepumper · 17/10/2021 21:32

@Jenster03

Regarding kids losing break time if they get punished, I'd be interested to know what a more appropriate punishment would be. Kids care about breaktime, that's why they lose it if they misbehave. You can't win can you?
Give me an example of something you think they should be punished for.