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Original poster

Prince Andrew no surprise

734 replies

Pixxie7 · 10/10/2021 22:41

No surprise that the met have stopped. Their investigation into PA.

OP posts:
ChurchofLatterDayPaints · 12/10/2021 12:28

And I remember many on MN defending Jimmy Saville until it could not be denied anymore.

I wasn't on MN at the time but that doesn't surprise me at all.

Very little has changed in terms of attitudes, then. Some of the replies on here are just unbelievable. The energy people put into defending these guys, just wow.

julieca · 12/10/2021 12:30

@prh47bridge that is not who I was talking about. Steve someone who is a witness to Andrew slobbering over Virginia. And he has said he will testify. So that makes two people who have publicly said they can verify Virginia's statements.

julieca · 12/10/2021 12:32

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints

And I remember many on MN defending Jimmy Saville until it could not be denied anymore.

I wasn't on MN at the time but that doesn't surprise me at all.

Very little has changed in terms of attitudes, then. Some of the replies on here are just unbelievable. The energy people put into defending these guys, just wow.

Yep. Poor men are innocent middle-aged rich men being pursued by teenage gold diggers who are throwing themselves at them.

That pretty much sums up some people's attitudes here. You can see why men abusing women is still so widespread when anything there is an attempt to hold a man to account, lots of people defend him.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

The royal family
Hoolahoophop · 12/10/2021 12:36

Thank you phr47.

Sounds like it will be very difficult to convict PA of anything regardless of who's truth is correct, his alleged actions were not illegal at the time, I doubt there are receipts for payments made, any benefits offered as payment would likely be favours and introductions not sure how they would be proved in a court of law. So VGs only hope of a conviction in PAs lifetime would be others testifying independently and reliably. No need for any Met or Royal cover up.

Theunamedcat · 12/10/2021 12:42

That's not what is going on here no one is particularly defending him just saying there isn't evidence to convict him if we are to live in a society where we believe innocent until PROVEN guilty then that is the stance to take, we cannot say "He looks like a creep therefore he must be one" and that be enough to convict him

There are several things happening here

He is massively entitled seriously how does his ego fit in a building

He is unsympathetic

He lies or tells the truth so badly it seems like a lie

He was a playboy "airmiles andy" women threw themselves at him

At best he believes these girls were legitimately throwing themselves at him 🙄 at worst he knew they were trafficked

julieca · 12/10/2021 12:48

Innocent until proven guilty, means the accuser is lying until proven to be telling the truth.

Pinotnoirandcheese · 12/10/2021 12:53

So if I understand this correctly, a pompous, self important idiot has sex with a girl of legal age?

And in order to prosecute him, the police needs to be able to prove not only that he realised that this girl wasn’t into him (this doesn’t seem to deter many men) but also that she was trafficked?

And this all happened more than 10 years ago? In a country where the conviction/prosecution for rape is 1%?

And people are surprised?

Look at all women who try to report recent rapes in vain: “No evidence” claims the police. Look at women being flashed: “you didn’t look closely enough” says the police.

prh47bridge · 12/10/2021 12:57

[quote julieca]@prh47bridge that is not who I was talking about. Steve someone who is a witness to Andrew slobbering over Virginia. And he has said he will testify. So that makes two people who have publicly said they can verify Virginia's statements.[/quote]
The question was about other women making allegations against Andrew. You are referring to Steve Scully who says he saw Andrew kissing and grinding against a bikini clad woman, who he says he believes was Giuffre, "some time between 2001 and 2004". He says they were "bumping and grinding" for several minutes before lying on lounge chairs by the pool. He says he later met them holding hands on a path. Given how vague he has been about dates and other details, including his identification of Giuffre, I'm not sure his testimony will carry much weight, but he may come over better in court than he has in interviews with the press.

MissMarpleRocks · 12/10/2021 12:58

Everyone, everyone is entitled to a defence. Everyone is entitled to innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Whether some like it or not. That is the law in England & Wales. I hope it stays that way.

I’ve no idea whether PA is guilty or not but I defend his right to be innocent until proven guilty.

It’s the prosecution/plaintiff that has to prove their case not the defendant.

prh47bridge · 12/10/2021 13:02

@julieca

Innocent until proven guilty, means the accuser is lying until proven to be telling the truth.
No, it absolutely does not. It means we don't automatically assume anything about the accuser's testimony. We don't assume it is true, nor do we assume it is false. We take it seriously and investigate properly. But, given that the state always has vastly more resources than the defendant, it is for the prosecution to prove guilt. It is not up to the accused to prove their innocence.
ancientgran · 12/10/2021 13:03

That's not what is going on here no one is particularly defending him just saying there isn't evidence to convict him if we are to live in a society where we believe innocent until PROVEN guilty then that is the stance to take, we cannot say "He looks like a creep therefore he must be one" and that be enough to convict him

This is what is worrying. Do you remember the man in Bristol who everyone "knew" had killed a young woman, he was a bit odd, looked like people thought a sex killer would look so he was guilty, of course he wasn't. He said it had done serious damage to his life, he was a witness at the Leveson Enquiry. I think his name was Chris something.

Then on here when Harry and Meghan did their reveal about a member of the RF questioning the colour of any future baby and there was a flurry on here that it was obviously Prince Philip except it wasn't was it. People declared that they "knew" it was him, of course some others know it is Anne, Camilla, Andrew, William and who knows who else.

Even the justice system doesn't always get it right and they have more evidence than we do, how long were the Birmingham Six in prison or Gerry Conlon?

How about Operation Midland? Many famous and powerful men went through years of anxiety as the false allegations were investigated, Leon Brittan died with his name trashed. I'm sure it was a comfort to his widow when he was subsequently cleared but what a sad end to his life (I'm not a conservative voter but I still think it was a disgrace.)

None of us "know" who is right and who is wrong in this case, anyone who is 100% sure is deluding themself.

ancientgran · 12/10/2021 13:09

@MissMarpleRocks

Everyone, everyone is entitled to a defence. Everyone is entitled to innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Whether some like it or not. That is the law in England & Wales. I hope it stays that way.

I’ve no idea whether PA is guilty or not but I defend his right to be innocent until proven guilty.

It’s the prosecution/plaintiff that has to prove their case not the defendant.

Absolutely agree with you and it is something that we would all want if we were wrongly accused or one of our loved ones was wrongly accused. To go to justice on the basis of what everyone believes is a truly terrifying prospect. Makes me think of a quote from A Man for all Seasons.

"This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then?

So lets keep the laws, let the lawyers argue it out

julieca · 12/10/2021 13:14

@ancientgran come on. Andrew does not look weird. He is clearly a liar as his car crash TV interview clearly showed.

ancientgran · 12/10/2021 13:21

[quote julieca]@ancientgran come on. Andrew does not look weird. He is clearly a liar as his car crash TV interview clearly showed.[/quote]
Wow you picked one word out of that, well done.

Does any of what I said make you think that sometimes people get it wrong? People are absolutely sure of something that ends up being wrong? If so do you think all the people accused in Operation Midland are actually guilty, do you think Price Philip was the one who made the comment even thought Oprah has said H & M have said it wasn't.

I never said he looked weird by the way but have a look at what people have said about him, fat, middleaged, sleazy. People make judgements and they aren't always right.

The evidence from two of the women, as quoted up thread, don't agree so do you think they are liars?

prh47bridge · 12/10/2021 13:22

[quote julieca]@ancientgran come on. Andrew does not look weird. He is clearly a liar as his car crash TV interview clearly showed.[/quote]
Really? What did he say in that interview that shows he was clearly a liar?

julieca · 12/10/2021 13:32

@ancientgran Andrew is a fat middle-aged man. That is simply the facts.
In terms of lying - I have a rare condition that means I can't sweat, I couldn't be guilty as I was a Pizza Express in Woking (did not prove his innocence on bit). He is an obvious liar. So it puzzles me that anyone would believe him.

prh47bridge · 12/10/2021 13:33

[quote julieca]@ancientgran Andrew is a fat middle-aged man. That is simply the facts.
In terms of lying - I have a rare condition that means I can't sweat, I couldn't be guilty as I was a Pizza Express in Woking (did not prove his innocence on bit). He is an obvious liar. So it puzzles me that anyone would believe him.[/quote]
I ask again, what has he said that makes him an obvious liar?

ChurchofLatterDayPaints · 12/10/2021 13:35

Threadkilling monarchist BS re the liar comment, as ever.

Regardless of my views, my teen daughter is growing up to despise men. I'm sure she's not the only one.

julieca · 12/10/2021 13:36

Really you believe he has a rare condition that means he cant sweat?
In spite of many hundreds of photos of him being shared on social media after that interview showing him sweating.
And claiming he is innocent because he was at Pizza Express is a lie. He knows that the allegations are about an event later in the day that he could have went on to.
This cant be a surprise to you that most people think he is a liar surely?

queenofarles · 12/10/2021 14:11

Charles has been personal friends with a number of sex offenders. This is not about meeting people in a personal capacity.
That does not mean I think he is a sex offender, but I suspect he is a terrible judge of character or alternatively does not take sex offences seriously
The same can be said about so many people who were friends with Harvey Weinstein like Oprah.

julieca · 12/10/2021 14:19

@queenofarles we are talking about Charles.
Lots of middle-aged men have had sex with teenagers as well. Doesnt mean it is fine for Andrew to do this.

queenofarles · 12/10/2021 14:25

I know that but based on that broad perception anyone who is friends with the likes of JE , HW are criminals too, and I wanted to point out that it’s not that simple.

prh47bridge · 12/10/2021 14:27

@julieca

Really you believe he has a rare condition that means he cant sweat? In spite of many hundreds of photos of him being shared on social media after that interview showing him sweating. And claiming he is innocent because he was at Pizza Express is a lie. He knows that the allegations are about an event later in the day that he could have went on to. This cant be a surprise to you that most people think he is a liar surely?
Nicely editing his claim there to omit most of it. His claim is that he spent the day, including the evening, with his children, as part of which he took Beatrice to Pizza Express for a party. It may be that this claim is a lie, but you have no proof of that.
julieca · 12/10/2021 14:36

@prh47bridge he claimed that as he was in public he couldn't have been in another place. We don't know where he was after he left Pizza Express.
And you accept the inability to sweat is a lie?

julieca · 12/10/2021 14:37

@queenofarles

I know that but based on that broad perception anyone who is friends with the likes of JE , HW are criminals too, and I wanted to point out that it’s not that simple.
He has been friends with a number of sex offenders. No that does not mean Charles is one. But at the minimum, it shows incredibly poor personal judgement.
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