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Prince Andrew no surprise

734 replies

Pixxie7 · 10/10/2021 22:41

No surprise that the met have stopped. Their investigation into PA.

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 11/10/2021 20:51

You wanted sources. I gave you some rather than simply quoting my own professional knowledge. If you think I got the UK legislation and understanding how it works through Google, I suggest you think again.

Roussette · 11/10/2021 20:53

Yeah I know.

Lots of sources, and I'll do as I'm told and think again

Pixxie7 · 11/10/2021 21:03

I think that whatever happens people would have more respect for him if he went to America and answered their questions rather than hide which is pathetic.

OP posts:

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SecretKeeper1 · 11/10/2021 21:05

I thought it was a fake.

Seems a glaring error for a legal document. Tut tut.

Theunamedcat · 11/10/2021 21:07

They want to ask questions about someone else not even about him there were plenty of Americans who have just as much information if not more surely it makes sense to interview your own first then go outside the country

prh47bridge · 11/10/2021 21:15

@SecretKeeper1

I thought it was a fake.

Seems a glaring error for a legal document. Tut tut.

I suspect the mistake was made by the website rather than the lawyers. They can't even spell Philip correctly.
worriedatthemoment · 11/10/2021 21:17

@Roussette its clear that poster knows what they are talking about and are sticking to facts , not their Opinions

worriedatthemoment · 11/10/2021 21:18

@Pixxie7 not sure I would go there if I were him but would offer to meet and speak to them in the uk if they only want info

MissMarpleRocks · 11/10/2021 21:19

@Pixxie7

I think that whatever happens people would have more respect for him if he went to America and answered their questions rather than hide which is pathetic.
I’d not advise a client to do so. I consider any such advice would be foolhardy whatever you may think. Any solicitor who advised that a client should go in such a situation isn’t doing their job imo.
Pixxie7 · 11/10/2021 21:22

Fair enough I am no expert by any means it’s just my perception.

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ChurchofLatterDayPaints · 11/10/2021 21:33

But MissMarple, Pixxie wasn't talking about what you'd advise. She was talking about the public perception.

His name is mud. Made worse by his legal team's fabulous advice to ignore service, show the world what an arrogant twat he is, make everyone think he's got a lot to hide and turn the whole thing into a slow-motion car crash.

The outcome of the case is irrelevant as far as his reputation is concerned. Would be great to see a result for women, though.

SickAndTiredAgain · 11/10/2021 21:38

@Pixxie7

I think that whatever happens people would have more respect for him if he went to America and answered their questions rather than hide which is pathetic.
I have a low opinion of him, but if his legal advice is to not answer their questions, I can understand him following that. It’s what I’d do, even if I knew I was innocent, I’d do whatever my lawyers told me was best.
ChurchofLatterDayPaints · 11/10/2021 21:51

I thought lawyers were supposed to know about damage limitation. PA's team have succeeded in making him look even more stupid than he did after Panorama.

Roussette · 11/10/2021 22:01

Would be great to see a result for women, though

So agree with this.
And he has daughters which is gobsmacking given he showed no sympathy for the victims whatsoever in his carcrash interview

Serenster · 11/10/2021 22:07

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints

I thought lawyers were supposed to know about damage limitation. PA's team have succeeded in making him look even more stupid than he did after Panorama.
As you point out though, his name is mud. Realistically, there is no good outcome for him in this case, just a least worst outcome.

Given this, if I was advising him, I’d be looking for the best way to get the case shut down without having to face a (very risky) trial or having to pay a (will definitely be seen as a sign of guilt) settlement payment. So taking all the technical points of process - service, lack of jurisdiction, no standing to sue, the case is out of time, you name it - that I could.
And really, it matters not what members of the general public think about that tactic, because as this thread clearly demonstrates, those opinions aren’t going to change….

TobysGreatAunt · 11/10/2021 22:11

Not quite sure what people expect ..

No witnesses , no forensics , historic allegations, one word against the other , she was 17 and over age of consent.

Not going anywhere regardless of it being Prince Andrew.

ChurchofLatterDayPaints · 11/10/2021 22:24

Not quite sure what people expect ..

So some now admit trial would be "very risky", others confident of PA not being a nonce in any shape or form.

Tempted to stay up and fuel the internal divisions within Team Andy but have opted for reruns of the Magic Roundabout instead.

derxa · 11/10/2021 22:25

Would be great to see a result for women, though. Hmm

MissMarpleRocks · 11/10/2021 22:41

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints

Not quite sure what people expect ..

So some now admit trial would be "very risky", others confident of PA not being a nonce in any shape or form.

Tempted to stay up and fuel the internal divisions within Team Andy but have opted for reruns of the Magic Roundabout instead.

Any trial is risky even if you are innocent. Have you never heard of miscarriages of justice? In any event this is a civil not criminal case.

His solicitors will not be interested in public perception but the risks of proceeding to trial. If some posters on this thread were put in the same position I’m pretty certain you’d do what your lawyers advised not what random people on the internet thought.

Serenster · 11/10/2021 22:41

Any trial is risky, @ChurchofLatterDayPaints.

A “he said, she said” jury trial in a foreign jurisdiction with a political judge, and linked to a notorious criminal who died and so could be considered to have escaped justice - I’d consider that a hugely risky proposition for any client, even one who was 100% innocent.

Diverseopinions · 11/10/2021 22:58

I think there is a lot of wrong in this case, but I can't approve of the way some posters want to screw all the evil into a ball and stick it on every person in this debacle, in equal measure of blame.

'The Queen is wrong - the Queen is bad.'
'Andrew is as bad as Epstein.'

You just need to separate out what each individual has actually done.

There is absolutely no feeling that everyone is trying conscientiously to unravel the threads in this knotted up ball of string, to see who did what. Yet that is what judges do: they do scrutinise very carefully degrees of blame.

Nobody is saying Andrew was right if he slept with a teenager. He ought to have exercised a duty of care as a responsible adult who met and reported to the authorities that a vulnerable- seeming young woman - who looks like a teenager - is hanging out with older adults, her legal guardians nowhere in sight. She was vulnerable and appears not to know it. Posing for a photo with him to show her mum seems to underline her vulnerability, for me. She was totally out of her depth, in her skimpy clothes, with all those world-wide older adults. I saw a photo of her in that same little outfit at a party with celebrities. It is tragic, what her young, innocent life was used for.

There is a principle of innocent until proven guilty, and how can we know what exactly went on? I'm not doubting Virginia Roberts' testimony. I'm inclined to take it as truth, based on her presentation. But officially nobody knows what went on between her and Andrew. The interview suggests lack of truthfulness, based on the fact that photo appears genuine. Lying on camera, if he did, is a serious offence. But what can definitely be inferred beyond that?

I don't think Virginia can say what exactly Andrew knew of her situation. I'd imagine that Andrew didn't mix with the general rich clientele who hung out with Epstein. Why on earth would he do that? Royals don't. They don't want to rub shoulders with ordinary rich joi poloi nobodies. They don't want the adverse publicity. And Andrew has a high opinion of himself. I imagine whatever favours he received thanks to Epstein were delivered in a discreet private room in a quiet house, not in the middle of a free-for-all orgy.

I think we are cleaning up sex, or trying to, as a society. Decades ago, teenagers probably did court older men whom they met through work - and nobody, sadly, said that they were vulnerable. People went out to work aged fifteen, after all. I'm always struck by that song Paul McCartney released with The Beatles when he was twenty-one. It goes: ' She was just seventeen, you know what I mean, and the way she looked was way beyond compare'. That song: ' I saw her standing there' would never be a hit today, with it's insidious meaning. But that was 1963. We treat teenagers as youngsters to be protected now - quite rightly.

julieca · 11/10/2021 23:43

In 1963 most young people were in full-time work at 15 years old. But my gran who was born in 1907 still saw older men with teenage girls as dirty old men. Just because men get away with it, didn't mean that others were not judging.

julieca · 11/10/2021 23:57

And the car crash Tv interview which his lawyers will not have advised, only served to make him look very guilty.

prh47bridge · 12/10/2021 00:39

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints

I thought lawyers were supposed to know about damage limitation. PA's team have succeeded in making him look even more stupid than he did after Panorama.
Given the record of the US justice system (which seems to have a higher rate of miscarriages of justice than we do in the UK, is far more reluctant to correct miscarriages when they occur and where misconduct by the police or prosecutors contributes to over half of all wrongful convictions), the primary damage they would want to limit is any chance of him being convicted in the USA. That is far more important than getting him good PR.
julieca · 12/10/2021 01:39

The reason there are miscarriages of justice are because you have extremely poor people who get incredibly poor legal representation. I have read of cases where people accused of murder were represented by a lawyer who had only been involved in defending people who had committed very petty crimes and were out of their depth.
This really does not apply to Andrew. It is disingenuous to suggest this will be an issue at all for him.

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