If a police officer arrested you like Wayne Couzens?

[faithfulbird20]

Unfortunately it's taken losing Sarah to such a horrific crime to ask such a question. But what are we supposed to do. Someone arrests you off duty and you don't know whether u can trust them due to this case. What would you do? Ring 999 and say I'm being arrested by so and so but I don't know if he's on duty or if he's dodgy please can you log it somewhere. I just want to know if I'm definitely being taken to the police station I feel unsafe. There should be some sort of law. But what could you do? You've got no chance. No chance of safety. It's scary.

@NiceGerbil

The met are rotten to the core. The list of their appalling behaviour is as long as your arm.

They are not widely trusted and they haven't been for decades. And with very good reason.

As a police officer yourself I imagine you know about it all.

This is really about the met. What is your view on them?

Agree. They also prefer to recruit ex military I noticed and some of these individuals are use to being in an environment where racism and misogynistic behavior is casual and tolerated. *not all but some

So joining the police they come with these values.

I've also become aware of how being a police officer apparently grants you immunity to commit domestic violence. Witnessed that myself.

DH works for the Met and is incredible. If he comes across misogyny, racism or corruption he acts appropriately and is disgusted by colleagues who behave like that. There absolutely needs to be change at the Met and there are people on the inside trying their best to be part of that. There are so many problems that need addressing and they can’t make a start until the government funds them properly. Ever since Theresa May withdrew her support as Home Secretary they’ve struggled. DH says he simply can’t deploy detectives in pairs like Scotland are, as they’re too thin on the ground. He’s barely managing to cope with the crimes they have as it is.
I also think that it’s a red herring to talk about institutional sexism (or racism) in the police in isolation. It is happening everywhere and starts in childhood. There is so much we all need to do in every corner of the UK to educate boys and call out men who are entitled and hateful.

I also think the “challenge a police officer during arrest” narrative is ridiculous. A good officer like DH will be more than happy for you to speak to the control room, or wait for a female colleague etc (unless of course you are actively causing harm to people or property at the time and need to be stopped!). An immoral police officer will bundle you into a car without giving you the chance. The onus is not on the victim.

A single male police officer shouldn't be allowed to detain/drive off a lone woman. He should have to stop her and call for a female chaperone. And wait.

All women should have a number it symbol eg to press on their phone if they feel anxious about an arrest by a male. And it the male should have to show her his electronic id or maybe QR code and her scanning of this should alert a monitored system that he's with a lone female and automatically send a chaperone.

In our futuristic dreams, I guess. Poor Sarah 😞

If not it

Yes, how the hell can you challenge an arresting officer? It would be, um, an offence?!

This scares me. I have two daughters so that's my main huge fear.

I'm an SEN teacher, and this just makes me think of the topic we teach "people who help us"

I'm not so sure I would want to teach my students, female and male, who are already extremely vulnerable, that they could go to a police officer for help when out in the community. It just doesn't seem like the right thing to teach anymore. Which is desperately sad

'I'm just asking you and others politely to not swear at me in posts.
I'm not using abusive language back at you and I don't like swearing.
No - I'm not going to arrest your, summons you or report you - I'm just asking politely. Thank you'

No. We are allowed to swear here, and I'm pissed off that you are spouting NACALT when a lot of us here are telling you our lived experience is that a hell of a lot of coppers are not on our side. I lived in London for ten years and never met a helpful MET officer. While I am sure some of them must exist, any I met were dreadful, and I am a totally law abiding citizen. The system is rotten to the core, and if you refuse to acknowledge that then you are part of the problem, and can quite frankly piss off.

DH works for the Met and is incredible. If he comes across misogyny, racism or corruption he acts appropriately and is disgusted by colleagues who behave like that.

That's what he tells you @VashtaNerada

Lots of others have explained that, if you complain about other officers' conduct, you find yourselves ostracised and ultimately out of the force.

Give this thread a good read, and others around the same subject on this site over the last few days. Many other posters have explained that what your husband describes to you simply isn't reality.

I am not going to believe a man is not a misogynist, just because he (or his wife) tells me.

@alwayscrashinginthesamecar1

'And please refrain from using abusive language in your posts.'

Spoken like a true copper. Fuck off. What are you going to do, arrest me?

This.

Typical police tactics. Deny, deny, deny. Misogyny doesn't happen. Couzens' character witnesses at his trial, the officers who buried his prior sexual offences, they didn't exist. The 'I never saw him do it guv.'

And the deliberate attempt to 'escalate' by trying to police our fucking,cunting language. Such a cliche

That’s fair enough @thedancingbear - you don’t know him and yes, theoretically, he could be lying to my face. I do believe him however, and know of cases that never made their way to the media where officers have been appropriately challenged and dealt with. I have read the thread and I do believe victims. I don’t think I said otherwise. That doesn’t mean I’m going to discount DH’s experiences or indeed mine (I worked for a partner agency for the MPS for over a decade and have my own working relationship with them completely separate to DH).

That’s fair enough @thedancingbear - you don’t know him and yes, theoretically, he could be lying to my face. I do believe him however, and know of cases that never made their way to the media where officers have been appropriately challenged and dealt with. I have read the thread and I do believe victims. I don’t think I said otherwise. That doesn’t mean I’m going to discount DH’s experiences or indeed mine (I worked for a partner agency for the MPS for over a decade and have my own working relationship with them completely separate to DH).

Fine, but the further information that you are one of the police 'family' means that your post is just another one protesting that 'NACALT' (Not All Coppers Are Like That), and deflecting the blame for the police's failings elsewhere, in your case, central government and the general public - who include your victims.

I'm not so sure I would want to teach my students, female and male, who are already extremely vulnerable, that they could go to a police officer for help when out in the community. It just doesn't seem like the right thing to teach anymore. Which is desperately sad

I know. DS is 4, and he came home from nursery saying “police catch baddies and put them in jail”.

And I thought um, no that’s not really a reflection of what they do.

I got into a marked police car with two male officers who pulled up to me late at night beside a cash point, said get in, get in, then told me the person behind me at the cashpoint was a known mugger who had been preying on people at that cashpoint. They then drove me where I was going while they had very racist conversations in the front.
Seems weird as heck now I look back. I was 18 then and didnt question getting in.

VashtaNerada

DH works for the Met and is incredible. If he comes across misogyny, racism or corruption he acts appropriately and is disgusted by colleagues who behave like that.”

Has there been a negative impact on him, as a result?

Listening to the Today Programme yesterday, an ex-Met officer was being interviewed. He did the same, called it out and reported.
He was ostracised by colleagues and disgustingly found himself without back-up when in situations where it was urgently needed.

That said it all to me.

I've read that Wayne Couzens bought a sex worker to a hotel party to celebrate a colleagues wedding anniversary. Also 26 Met Police officers have committed sex crimes since 2016.

I feel like they aren't necessarily sorry (because their proposed solutions still put the onus on women) and probably pissed off that as a result of WC's actions the spotlight is now on them and their records are under scrutiny. I saw Marina Hyde wrote an article about this saying everything that many people have been banging on about for years and a lot of responses to her article saying "This!"

The Met aren't ready or happily willing to engage in a shake-up. But alas, here we are.

@MrsSkylerWhite He hasn’t, I think partly because he’s a sergeant and speaks from a position of authority but he also says the balance of opinion where he is, is very much in favour of doing the right thing. He does talk about how much it concerns him that very junior officers can be left without sufficient training or support due to the cutbacks, and he does see lots of mistakes taking place because of this. This could be anything from a misunderstanding of the law through to making assumptions about someone’s innocence / guilt without investigating it properly. And that’s just not good enough. He seems to spend a lot of time unpicking others’ mistakes and guiding junior officers even if they don’t directly report to him. He’s escalated his concerns but unless there is a complete rethink of how teams operate and the funding to accompany it, change isn’t going to happen. So I do completely believe that misogyny and racism happens in the police. My point was simply that there are some on the inside who are doing their best.

26 Met Police officers have committed sex crimes since 2016

Out of ongoing workforce of 60,000

Suppose with turnover in workforce 2016-2021, out of 70,000 eligible individuals

26/70k = 1 in 2692

I suspect the incidence of sex offenders is higher in general English adult population, but does anyone know for sure?

National Crime Agency says up to 850k sex offenders in UK.
850k/67 million is 1 in 80.

That poor woman. It's truly tragic. I don't think it would have made a jot of difference if she had screamed. He would have taken her anyway because he is evil. RIP Sarah, and massive condolences to her family and friends. They are all living a life sentence.

A Metropolitan Police officer who was in the same unit as PC Wayne Couzens has tonight been charged with the rape of a woman in September last year. He'll appear in court tomorrow morning. So.... just another bad apple.

@VladmirsPoutine

A Metropolitan Police officer who was in the same unit as PC Wayne Couzens has tonight been charged with the rape of a woman in September last year. He'll appear in court tomorrow morning. So.... just another bad apple.

I wonder if that unit attracts these types of men?

I wonder if that unit attracts these types of men?

It's obvious that the police in general would attract many applications from controlling, power-hungry and abusive men.

The question is what the fuck is wrong with their recruitment and psychological profiling and screening that they actually end up selecting such people from their potential pool of candidates. What are their HR actually doing??

And asidr the screening that should ne happening prior to recruitment, it is interesting that even serving police officers are required to pass regular fitness tests but there appear to be NO checks on their mental capacity of psychological stability to ensure that such people are weeded out and taken off duty until such time that medical professionals prove they are not a risk to members of the public. Surely if they wish us to continue to consent to them policing us then basic safeguards such as an annual, in depth psychological assessment should be in place? By somebody external obviously, who the police heirarchy cannot influence.

@lljkk

26 Met Police officers have committed sex crimes since 2016

Out of ongoing workforce of 60,000

Suppose with turnover in workforce 2016-2021, out of 70,000 eligible individuals

26/70k = 1 in 2692

I suspect the incidence of sex offenders is higher in general English adult population, but does anyone know for sure?

National Crime Agency says up to 850k sex offenders in UK.
850k/67 million is 1 in 80.

Apples and oranges. Those are the sex crimes of police officers that are known, aren't they? The other is a population level estimate of total sex crimes. I may be wrong?

If I'm not, then usually roughly 10% of sex crimes are reported, and so your figures would suggest much higher offending rates for police officers than members of the general public. But I doubt that's right either: I think studies massively underestimate the level of abuse in society also.

There's nowhere enough data to make a comparison between the two, as far as I know. What we do know is that police should be highly vetted before being offered a job and then again, repeatedly, at regular intervals. And that is not happening.

[quote VashtaNerada]@MrsSkylerWhite He hasn’t, I think partly because he’s a sergeant and speaks from a position of authority but he also says the balance of opinion where he is, is very much in favour of doing the right thing. He does talk about how much it concerns him that very junior officers can be left without sufficient training or support due to the cutbacks, and he does see lots of mistakes taking place because of this. This could be anything from a misunderstanding of the law through to making assumptions about someone’s innocence / guilt without investigating it properly. And that’s just not good enough. He seems to spend a lot of time unpicking others’ mistakes and guiding junior officers even if they don’t directly report to him. He’s escalated his concerns but unless there is a complete rethink of how teams operate and the funding to accompany it, change isn’t going to happen. So I do completely believe that misogyny and racism happens in the police. My point was simply that there are some on the inside who are doing their best.[/quote]
Yeah. Police have been raping and murdering people. They're SO underfunded, bless them. Let's give them more money to get more rapists with warrant cards on the street without them putting forward a single policy change that will mean the others like this in their ranks are identified, and fired with no pension, and I hope locked up.

Nope. Not happy to pay more money for more of these arseholes.