If a police officer arrested you like Wayne Couzens?

[faithfulbird20]

Unfortunately it's taken losing Sarah to such a horrific crime to ask such a question. But what are we supposed to do. Someone arrests you off duty and you don't know whether u can trust them due to this case. What would you do? Ring 999 and say I'm being arrested by so and so but I don't know if he's on duty or if he's dodgy please can you log it somewhere. I just want to know if I'm definitely being taken to the police station I feel unsafe. There should be some sort of law. But what could you do? You've got no chance. No chance of safety. It's scary.

no idea how to organise but i would attend, not helpful i know.

Would you be up for a thread about doing it? If so I'll message you see what we think would get most interest.

There's massive numbers of women on here with all sorts of ideas skills backgrounds etc. If it got interest widely then I think it could make something happen?

Start screaming, hitting and running.

Krav Maga should be brought in to every place in UK.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga

Yes.

I have to keep a low profile because my ex H ex police officer husband tried to kill me. But if there's anything that could be done in the background, I'm in

Oh, and don't be "nice"

A knee in the balls will do it. And if walking home in heels, take it off and whack him one.

Songs call. Let me see if choixx is interested if so we'll do a thread and put the link on here :)

Thank you.

I’d love to attend too. Something needs to be done

I understand the appeal of promoting women physically fighting I really do.

And it's great for girls and women to do this stuff for strength confidence enjoyment feeling of achievement etc.

Realistically though.

Loads of women and esp girls are very unlikely to be able to fight of a bloke who has seen an opportunity and decided to attack them. Even to do enough to get away.

With or without martial arts.

Say all the women and girls could do that if they learnt martial arts.

The men would surely-
Learn that as well
Choose victims more likely to be unable to fight them off. Eg disabled, physically v small or younger/ children, older women, ones that obviously had mobility issues / focus on women who were a bit pissed or very pissed or on drugs. Use more sudden unexpected methods and violent methods to maximise incapacity.

We need to get them dealt with properly by the sodding police.

And I also support women doing everything they can to maximise their chances of getting away. Thing is, then he gets someone else. So it's good one woman got away but the crime has still been committed.

Sorry I know it's not a popular view.

I have a physical disability can't run and if fall in certain way not getting up fast.

And IME male strength is overwhelming. My younger brother after puberty, I couldn't pride his clenched hand open. And he was quite weedy for want of a better word. It was all in run.

Less in fun we used to sometimes fight physically as kids. Nothing serious usual sibling stuff. He hit puberty. We argued. He gave me a shove not unusual. Usually I would shove back. I went flying. Unspoken agreement to not fight physically any more.

When a man punched me in the face on the street randomly literally went off the ground and through the air about 6 feet in a cartoon.

Other times I have unfortunately experienced the fact that if a man wanted to restrain me. He could do it with little trouble. And I could do nothing.

Yes everyone do martial arts etc it's a great thing to do.

I think it's a nice thought it will help us but I just. Don't think it's the answer.

And re this advice re couzens.

I mean the next couzens is unlikely to do the same thing.

The next will be a different method. And we can't think of all of them can we.

And I doubt couzens would have let her make a call or flag down a bus fgs. No way would he take that risk. It was going to happen no matter what she tried. Well unless she shot him when he came over but well that's not how things work.

I mean we don't know she why quietly do we. In the end.

Went quietly.

Not why quietly.

@lubeybooby

I feel like the police should introduce some way to immediately check

make it law that you get a minute or two to immediately use your phone or borrow theirs to tell someone, 'I am being arrested and taken to anytown police station, if I do not arrive there within 10/20/whatever minutes call 999'

and if that doesn't happen, that right not given before the cuffing stage you are legally allowed to flee/you are free to go (even if you have actually done something wrong)

not sure how the law stands currently but maybe no officer is allowed to physically arrest someone on their own, they must always be with a partner, both with visible credentials

it's terrifying what happened to Sarah, how dare he, and how dare the police let him get away with all the indecent exposure incidents so he was free on the streets to abduct Sarah

surely something extra has to be implemented now so any lone person can immediately inform someone

I can't see a phone call being allowed, let's say it's a trafficker that's arrested, they make a phone call (but instead alert the rest of the traffickers), a phone call opens up to much possibility of getting rid of evidence in genuine crimes.

I'm pretty sure any officer including plain clothes carry radios. I would insist on using the radio to contact control to see if the person is genuine and the arrest is valid

In London I've seen a few plain clothes things and they have never been a lone officer.

Usually a couple of other plainclothes appear almost immediately, and often a whole load of uniform as well.

'I'm pretty sure any officer including plain clothes carry radios. I would insist on using the radio to contact control to see if the person is genuine and the arrest is valid'

And if he's dodgy he'll say no. And if you keep on he'll grab you.

The advice is fucking stupid.

And the next man to do something like this will use a different method that women won't have thought to be armed against.

We have no idea what she did or didn't do. And once he decided she was his victim, i don't think anything she did or said would have made any difference.

Not really relevant but my ex was arrested for a very serious form of assult, there's quite a lot of evidence, hospital reports, photos, messages on his phone, witness statement off someone else.

The male officer in charge was literally trying to talk me out of making a statement. It just made me think what kind of person are you? And isn't it your duty as an officer to protect the public and women from these types of people?...

@Laladell I was the victim of a very violent stranger rape, there were witnesses who disturbed him. Open and shut case.

The Sapphire Unit liaison officer was great, but the uniform officers who arrived on scene and took me to hospital were horrible.

One told me to drop it, one told me I must know who this guy was and started shouting at me to tell them, they all told me they “knew” I was drunk/high (I was hysterical and traumatised), they wouldn’t let me phone DH to tell him I wasn’t dead until I’d been to the SARC (he had reported me missing and was beside himself)… they were absolutely awful.

Other times I have unfortunately experienced the fact that if a man wanted to restrain me. He could do it with little trouble. And I could do nothing

Yes, this. I knew immediately that the man who was about to rape me was dodgy. I ran away, he ran faster, and when he held me down I wasn’t strong enough to stop him. He was able to hold me down with one hand around my throat and rip my trousers off with the other hand.

The strength differential is massive - we don’t realise because most women don’t get into physical fights with men very often. But if you have ever been in a situation where the man is genuinely using their full strength, rather than holding back in a play fight, you realise exact how much stronger they are than you.

change your experience is horrific. I am so sorry that it happened. It makes me lose all faith in men. I hope you are ok.

Don't lose all faith in men.

They are not all the same. There are plenty of good kind men about.

Having said that. There is a social issue that means misogyny is ingrained. And most men/ boys are steeped in it.

So the 'trivial' stuff. In a group of blokes. One man shouts something obscene at a girl. Most will laugh even if they don't find it funny and wouldn't do it themselves. Some won't laugh and think it's awful.

But in the end none of them express anything out loud. That it was a shit thing to do. That she looked scared. I don't find that funny. Etc.

And that goes through everything, the toxic masculinity thing. Boys will be boys. Hardly the end of the world. No peers even slightly indicating they don't like it.

And so the arseholes have their behaviour tacitly supported. And on they go.

The nature of porn these days is no help.

So the men who give a fuck need to put their money where their mouth is.

In other countries I've been to. The street harrassment doesn't happen. It's socially unacceptable. You would get glares, comments. Even anger. So it's less.

In a society where awful men essentially never get any pushback from peers. Society accepts it.

That's a society where serious abuse of women flourishes.

But. Most men are fine, even though in that society. Really they are.

Change- I'm so sorry.

' He was able to hold me down with one hand around my throat and rip my trousers off with the other hand.'

My first attack had no extra violence. It was someone I knew and trusted.

I was 19 and bolshy and feminist and I had never even... I had no idea that someone I knew and trusted would ignore multiple no / I don't want this etc.

And I had no idea of the real life physical difference in strength.

He was able to pin my arms above my head by my wrists. With one hand. And I could not even get any slight acknowledgement even no matter how I fought to get them out with all my strength. He didn't even really notice. I could no nothing.

And after that. It totally changed my whole view of men and women and power and risk and everything really.

First hand knowledge that if a man even an older boy wanted to restrain me. There was literally nothing I could do.

Are men taking part in this conversation here or anywhere? Seems not to me. Why not? That is the problem.

@Stopsnowing

Are men taking part in this conversation here or anywhere? Seems not to me. Why not? That is the problem.

Yes - I've posted a few posts on here

@Felix125 - yes, and your contribution has been to point out that Not All Coppers Are Like That (NACALT); that Couzens was just a bad apple; and that we should continue to trust you, whatever.

I'm still waiting for a response to my post of 10:02 yesterday to you. I'll repeat: if Couzens was a one-off, what do you say about:

-the police who covered up his exposing himself and wanking in drive-thrus, several times over a period of years

-the coppers who nicknamed him 'the Rapist' but did nothing to raise concerns

-the coppers he was exchanging racist, misogynistic and homophobic 'banter' with on WhatsApp

-your fucking scumbag colleagues who stood in the dock at Couzens' trial and gave character references for him

All this suggests that it's not a few bad apples, it's the whole barrel.

I don't expect a cogent response from you. I'm expecting denial and aggression.

This is one of those cases which will change behaviour after the event. In the same way that the McCann case meant noone will ever leave their kids and listen out for them or whatever. Before it happened, I'm sure lots of people did what they did.

Before this happened to Sarah, I would absolutely have done what she did. No-one would ever think an officer with a warrant card and the right spiel is going to do you harm. Different story now though.