Raising a boy in today’s world

[Redredwiney]

Does anyone else look at monsters like Wayne Couzens and wonder what went wrong in their lives for them to turn out the way they did? Or not even murder but harass or sexually assault.

I have a 6 month old, and I have no idea what I’m supposed to do to make sure he doesn’t turn out to be a monster, and that scares me. I know I’m overthinking it, but I can’t help but wonder what happened in these men’s childhood, etc. for them to feel so entitled, and how I can make sure my baby grows up to respect women. It’s such a scary world.

Make sure your son's influences are sound and decent. Don't be afraid to call out (and weed out) those that aren't.

My ds is 13. I split with my ex when ds was 3 because after I had ds, ex started coming out with horrible misogynistic views, behaving like 1950s man, drinking to excess every night and I couldn't bear the thought of DS growing up with such poor influence.

Now DS is a teenager, our house works on the basis that we are equals. OK, I do most of the cleaning and shopping but ds cooks at the weekends, cleans his own room, sorts recycling, puts out the bins.

If there is a decision to be made, I try to involve DS and let him have a say. It's a balance, not loading him with too much.

Recently he said he didn't want to meet up with a friend from primary school anymore because the boy kept trying to show him 'nasty videos'. I was more proud of him than I can say.

It really bothers me that women and girls might see my lovely DS and DH as a potential threat just because of scum like Wayne Cousens. I brought both my children up to respect others and that's all a parent can do

I do know what you mean - I am madly in love with my beautiful little DS, and I'm lucky in that my DH, brothers, dad etc are all lovely, gentle, kind and thoughtful men. It is a bit sad that they may be judged in a particular way due to their sex. I have a lovely friend who unfortunately really dislikes boys and when my DS was born was quite unkind. Basically insinuating another violent thug/potential rapist had been born, said to my face, while I was holding my 2 day old son Needless to say he is the sweetest and most loving child I've ever met.

However, it is the world we live in that men as a class are the ones perpetrating crime and sexism against women and girls. Other women don't know your DS and DH and one of the few indicators they would have to go on is their sex.

I want to be careful that I teach my son what risks face women and why a woman might assess him based on his sex, but without making out that men are villains. I don't want to introduce and reinforce the 'men are bad' message to him as I think that is just going to lead to a more toxic mindset. It has to be in context.

It's hard, it really is. I'm absolutely repulsed by the porn industry and strip clubs etc and I know that realistically as a teen/young man he might not really get why, regardless of what we try to teach him as a child. I'm just hoping that as an adult he has the values we'd like for him - kindness, thoughtfulness, gentleness, empathy and love. So far he naturally shows these and sees examples every day from his father, so I'm hoping for the best.

@stairway

Let’s not blame the mother for this, it’s just another form of misogyny.

Difficult as parents you are the primary source of education on behaviour for your children. It's not someone else's job. These days we're surrounded by images of sex and violence from porn to 'safer' sources such as video games and music.

Sadly for those with well behaved and well mannered boys they will by default be tarred with the same brush as the others. When you're younger there's a lot of pressure to fit in with the crowd so few stand up where their views are not popular.

@MintJulia

Make sure your son's influences are sound and decent. Don't be afraid to call out (and weed out) those that aren't.

My ds is 13. I split with my ex when ds was 3 because after I had ds, ex started coming out with horrible misogynistic views, behaving like 1950s man, drinking to excess every night and I couldn't bear the thought of DS growing up with such poor influence.

Now DS is a teenager, our house works on the basis that we are equals. OK, I do most of the cleaning and shopping but ds cooks at the weekends, cleans his own room, sorts recycling, puts out the bins.

If there is a decision to be made, I try to involve DS and let him have a say. It's a balance, not loading him with too much.

Recently he said he didn't want to meet up with a friend from primary school anymore because the boy kept trying to show him 'nasty videos'. I was more proud of him than I can say.

Well done that young man and you his mum! Brought a lump to my throat that did.

Can anyone recommend any useful books about this?

Raising Boys by Stephen Biddulph

I'm not sure either but I do think porn contributes to abusing women too. All that choking and raping shit how can anyone watch that and thinks it okay because it's fantasy or whatever

Talk to your kids about sex and consent and what's normal.

I do worry about role models. My mother rang me up a while back to tell me she was concerned that my son doesn’t have a good male role model. (I’m a single mum, his dad is a giant man baby).

There is literally not much I can do about that.
Surely teaching my son how to be a good PERSON will also teach him how to be a good man? Other than that I have few options. My brother lives nearby but may not do so forever, and he’s much younger than me, so being a role model to a one year old isn’t exactly his responsibility.

I can only share examples about past sexually abusive relationships. Most of the time these men had lovely mothers, very loving and attentive to their adult sons, perhaps too loving, sort of overbearing but endearing in a way. They were 'mummy's boys' who were perfect in every way to mum. You would never think they have a cruel/manipulative child.

@SuperStarRose

Raising Boys by Stephen Biddulph

Thanks

I have two boys no daughters. 9 and 5. I do worry that I molly coddle them too much, even before this I was slightly worried that my overprotective behaviour might make them entitled in the future. I'm trying to change that, because I don't want them to behave like my exes.

@Mumoblue

I do worry about role models. My mother rang me up a while back to tell me she was concerned that my son doesn’t have a good male role model. (I’m a single mum, his dad is a giant man baby).

There is literally not much I can do about that.
Surely teaching my son how to be a good PERSON will also teach him how to be a good man? Other than that I have few options. My brother lives nearby but may not do so forever, and he’s much younger than me, so being a role model to a one year old isn’t exactly his responsibility.

The best, least misogynistic man I know was raised by women with no male role models

My oldest is 11 and as he becomes a teenager I worry loads about how to protect him from having access to violent woman-hating porn. I really think that can warp young boys brains and dehumanise woman but it’s impossible to effectively control apparently. The Government had plans for putting an age restriction on it but haven’t brought it in.

I think about this a lot. I have a 7 year old DS and I'm very conscious that he is growing up in a world that is innately misogynistic and - as he gets older - porn-saturated.

I truly think the availability of internet porn is a huge social experiment that we're only really starting to appreciate the enormity of. For all the progress women have made, the most violent, dehumanising content that actively encourages men to view us as a bunch of holes for their pleasure is now only a couple of clicks away for pretty much the entire global male population. It would be naive in the extreme to think men and boys view this and then compartmentalise it away, with no wider impact on their views and behaviour towards women and girls.

I'm doing the best I can to raise DS as a feminist ally (in an age appropriate way) and to see women and girls as equals. That way, as he gets older, he's hopefully got a good enough grounding in 'women are valid, three-dimensional humans too' to not unquestioningly buy into it all.

And work on the small things as well- whilst I was with my misogynistic and abusive ex, DS absolutely refused to watch/ read stuff with a female lead.

Got rid of the arse, and now DS doesn't actually give a toss and in fact, he was recently appalled that in a cartoon he was watching, only the boys went on a mission when the female character was better equipped to do this.

Agree, I worry about this too. I think I am going to need to have some frank discussions about it with my boys. Which I wish I didn’t have to.
The analogy about the cup of tea is a good one.

My DS is 40 and he's terrified of being accused of non consensual behaviour. He has been with DiL for 15 years but says he wouldn't have another relationship.
He is a decent man though and doesn't watch porn according to DiL.

I have a DD, a DS and nephews. I do worry that there is overexposure to really unpleasant ideas and videos online and the influence that must have on young minds, when there is nothing healthy to balance it out.

For me, it's a lot of things:

parents and teachers having a consistent, clear message and actively teaching about consent, respect, bullying, self-esteem.

Restricting access to 15, 18 and X-rated material (most boys in Y6 seem to watch violent 15 rated movies, the girls are typically only just watching 12 movies).

Good security and strong, appropriate filters on phones and iPads and other internet-enabled devices.

Bringing children up to expect their online habits to be monitored and restricted to age-appropriate apps and content.

Taking it very seriously and promptly escalating when a child reports any kind of sexual harassment. Making boys aware that any involvement as a bystander or an instigator or a consumer of any unpleasant behaviour makes them equally guilty. Whether it is upskirting, sexual comments, hassling girls to provide explicit photos, mocking boys who don't want to get involved, sharing inappropriate videos and photos, using explicit language, the list goes on and on. I don't think it should be taboo - it needs to be discussed early and often.

To counter toxic masculinity there needs to be an alternative - so bringing up boys to know what a healthy relationship looks like is really important.

There will always be vicious, freakish criminal behaviour but this cannot become the norm that girls and boys simply expect and don't complain about.

Is violent porn actually legal? I cannot fathom why it shouldn't be treated as seriously as child porn

I mean, I CAN fathom that's it's because men make the rules...

A friend recently told me her daughters class at school covered this subject. She is 15/16 and the class were to co wider a scenario. I can’t remember exactly the situation but it was something to do with a man using his power at work to take advantage and coerce a young woman for a date etc. And all the girls in the class could immediately see it was inappropriate and all the boys in the class couldn’t see what the issue was.

@CamillaRose

You’re assuming it’s nurture when in fact it’s probably nature. Nothing went wrong in their childhood. They have some sort of mental disorder. Sane people don’t go around committing murders.

Sadly I don’t think this is true. I read a book about the railway murders that took place in the eighties and it was very interesting to see how the perpetrators descended from fairly normal men into rapists and murderers. It seemed to be a combination of family events, rejections, hardcore porn and very violent video games that gradually distorted their view of reality. They were evil, but I don’t believe they were born that way.

@BoPeeple I agree

@littleburn

I think about this a lot. I have a 7 year old DS and I'm very conscious that he is growing up in a world that is innately misogynistic and - as he gets older - porn-saturated.

I truly think the availability of internet porn is a huge social experiment that we're only really starting to appreciate the enormity of. For all the progress women have made, the most violent, dehumanising content that actively encourages men to view us as a bunch of holes for their pleasure is now only a couple of clicks away for pretty much the entire global male population. It would be naive in the extreme to think men and boys view this and then compartmentalise it away, with no wider impact on their views and behaviour towards women and girls.

I'm doing the best I can to raise DS as a feminist ally (in an age appropriate way) and to see women and girls as equals. That way, as he gets older, he's hopefully got a good enough grounding in 'women are valid, three-dimensional humans too' to not unquestioningly buy into it all.

Totally agree with this.