Raising a boy in today’s world

[Redredwiney]

Does anyone else look at monsters like Wayne Couzens and wonder what went wrong in their lives for them to turn out the way they did? Or not even murder but harass or sexually assault.

I have a 6 month old, and I have no idea what I’m supposed to do to make sure he doesn’t turn out to be a monster, and that scares me. I know I’m overthinking it, but I can’t help but wonder what happened in these men’s childhood, etc. for them to feel so entitled, and how I can make sure my baby grows up to respect women. It’s such a scary world.

Don't be one of those mothers who turns a blind eye and thinks her son is perfect. Call him up on things.

I agree modelling within your own relationship is very important. And yes to lots of empathy building (reading is actually really important for this).

@Lightswitch123
I can’t believe you’ve been persuaded that young white “working class” men are losing out to blacks and Asians when they’re actually losing out to white middle class privately educated men, who fundamentally run the country! Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson has done a fucking number on you haven’t they

I have an 8 month old boy. I (obviously) don’t want him to grow up to be a monster, but I equally don’t want him to be a victim of toxic masculinity himself.

My plan is to provide plenty of books about caring boys/strong girls/understanding emotions and to have age appropriate discussions about everything from consent to mental health.

Luckily his dad has no issues around showing emotions and respects women so he will have a great role model.

Well as a mother of a little girl who keeps being hurt by boys in school, I’d say stop with the boys will be boys bollocks and come down like a ton of bricks should your 6yo be hitting other children. There are plenty of lovely little boys in her class btw but I am furious that my lovely little girl is already feeling vulnerable because of aggressive behaviour.

I have 4 boys, aged between 2 and 9 years.
I praise them when they are kind.
I don't allow them to treat me (or each other) disrespectfully.
I don't let them use 'girl' as an insult.
I read them some books/show them movies that have strong female characters (as well as some with male ones, of course).
I am starting to have deeper conversations with the oldest one about different attitudes and being able to think for himself.

Oh, and "no means NO," straight away, always, when they are playing physically together or with friends.

[quote Limejuiceandrum]@Lightswitch123
I can’t believe you’ve been persuaded that young white “working class” men are losing out to blacks and Asians when they’re actually losing out to white middle class privately educated men, who fundamentally run the country! Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson has done a fucking number on you haven’t they[/quote]
It goes both ways, there is also the lie out there that blacks and Asians are losing our to working class white people when it's clearly middle class + of all races.

@CamillaRose

You’re assuming it’s nurture when in fact it’s probably nature. Nothing went wrong in their childhood. They have some sort of mental disorder. Sane people don’t go around committing murders.

This is true.

As a female (who is also a rape victim) I don't like the narrative that woman should be aware of men.

It's not Ken as a sex we should fear or be protected from but those who have the neuro diversity to be able to carry out such heinous crimes.

I fear the lack of money in education to catch them as young boys, the lack of money in MH services to help rehabilitate them as teens and young adults. I fear the lack of accountability and poor criminal justice when low level crime starts allowing it to escalate.

It's not men. It's men who pose a very serious risk being allowed to carry on and dive under the radar and get to the point they commit such atrocities in society.

I also fear the narrative woman shouldn't change their behaviour. No they shouldn't with regards what they wear and how they go out.

But we do need to educate young girls and woman about red flags and their does need to be behaviour change here. There needs to be chance in confidence that they don't have to accept it. Confidence that if they leave they will be supported etc. And again - this comes back to funding and services which will be cut and the latest introduction of allowing trans woman in refuges preventing woman seeing them as a safe space.

But mostly we need to stop fearing having this conversation openly and honestly with the fear of being called woke if the narrative is challenged.

The whole of society needs a change in thought process - and pretty quickly as this happens over and over again. And every time they say "there were red flags". By then it's too late

When my son was a baby in a pram we were at a train station and one of those guys came along . He was really young like 19 and was drunk/ High with that story 'I only need 50p for my ticket " . I got really upset ( hormones) and turned to the lady next to me blubbing " once he was a little baby in a pram just like my baby"
She was lovely she said well you dont know the circumstances he grew up in , and agreed it was very sad.

Sorry off topic!

Awwww. That sticks with you doesn't it. 😔

@Lightswitch123

I worry that men today are all positively discriminated against. Much easier to get a role if your ethnic minority woman than white male. They are a very disadvantaged group.

The poor menz.

Yes, I also hope that’s a joke.

@CleopatrasBeautifulNose

I also think that saying no and meaning it, which is a key policy for being a good parent anyway, is also important. Don't plant the seed that no can become yes if enough persuasion is applied. Apart from the fact that you get a little pest for a child it leaks into their thinking for all sorts of things including other people's boundaries. Personally I only ever say no if I'm going to stand by that like a rock, so I always say it with damn good reason. When that word leaves my lips the kids drop the rope negate I have never backtracked on it without a fundamental change in the considerations which apply. If they want something I'll say yes if there is no reason not to. Maybe if it depends on something and I'll tell them what that is. But no never ever becomes yes just by them chipping away at my resolve.

Excellent post.

Theres a lot of toxic masculinity in schools.
And also in childrens football, rugby, tennis and cubs / scouts. Even in swimming.
It's led by men. Some of it makes me shudder.

It's certainly not women's doing. But by 15yo most boys have realised that the way to be is not far off a toxic mascilinity stereotype. It's very othering for them to exhibit any other traits.
Education can help in a limited way, if there are good male role models, and if its not directly undermined by the child's male family members.
Unfortunately mum / female teachers talking of kindness / empathy / emotion is very low on the radar of impact. They expect to hear this from the female caregivers in their lives but it has little impact on their thoughts or actions.

An example that shows my point: I unfortunately saw a video on fb of a 4yo violently doing martial arts with weapons! Everyone was singing his praises! That child will have been shouted at to hit harder. I know this as I removed my son from such a class years ago.
This is toxic masculinity. They build them up to it over the years. Doesnt usually start at 4 but it sometimes does.

Thank you for this thread and everyone's comments. Lots to think about.

I have these worries too. I am a mum to a 2 month old boy. Through the fact I'm a woman who was exposed to sexual violence from men when I was younger, through professional experiences of my own and my family members, these issues are really close to my heart. Sarah's story makes me distraught, it's hard to explain. I look at my son and he's the sweetest baby and I feel the weight of responsibility for raising him to respect women and also protecting him from toxicity of some males that he will sadly encounter in his life.

My idea so far is to show him what boundaries are - mine are quite firm and I want him to understand that everyone has them, that he needs to be sensitive and respectful to them. I want him to grow up understanding that he needs to think about the needs of others. I want him to be gentle but also firm if he ever needs to protect himself. It's so, so difficult. You've raised some very good points on here and I thank you for this.

I fear the lack of money in education to catch them as young boys, the lack of money in MH services to help rehabilitate them as teens and young adults.
The problem here is that sometimes, when things are offered, they aren’t taken up.
The only boy I have ever taught, where I thought ‘he will do something terrible one day’ was not supported by his parents.
He was not only mean and nasty, but had no empathy for others. Callous. He did not care. This was from when I taught him, aged five, until year 6.

Did we fail him then? No, we tried to get him help. So it was due to lack of money? No. He had an offer of a part time place at a PRU when he was 6. It was a behaviour unit, with specialists to help him.
The parents denied there was a problem and refused the help. There was no involvement from social services - the parents were wealthy professionals- this child had every material thing he wanted. However, he did not interact with his parents. He was an only child. After school he went to watch TV in his room and they watched TV in there’s. You could say there was some sort of neglect I suppose but the truth is he was not ‘wired’ right. There was something missing.

I have a huge 12 year old and I think the best thing to do is encourage them to be able to talk about their feelings and also discuss the issues faced by women and girls. I think a lot of it is down to role models. He has a fiercely intelligent and socially conscious big sister, a good, decent father and a feisty feminist mother.
I asked him the other day how we should teach girls and women to stay safe, he said we needed to teach the men how to behave so I think it’s going ok so far!

[quote Limejuiceandrum]@Lightswitch123
I can’t believe you’ve been persuaded that young white “working class” men are losing out to blacks and Asians when they’re actually losing out to white middle class privately educated men, who fundamentally run the country! Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson has done a fucking number on you haven’t they[/quote]
Exactly, great post!

@Hoppinggreen

I have a huge 12 year old and I think the best thing to do is encourage them to be able to talk about their feelings and also discuss the issues faced by women and girls. I think a lot of it is down to role models. He has a fiercely intelligent and socially conscious big sister, a good, decent father and a feisty feminist mother. I asked him the other day how we should teach girls and women to stay safe, he said we needed to teach the men how to behave so I think it’s going ok so far!

That suggests you’re definitely doing something right, @Hoppinggreen! I hope my l9 year old DS will have slightly older peers to absorb this kind of message from as he moves towards the end of primary.

@Hoppinggreen

I have a huge 12 year old and I think the best thing to do is encourage them to be able to talk about their feelings and also discuss the issues faced by women and girls. I think a lot of it is down to role models. He has a fiercely intelligent and socially conscious big sister, a good, decent father and a feisty feminist mother. I asked him the other day how we should teach girls and women to stay safe, he said we needed to teach the men how to behave so I think it’s going ok so far!

I would agree! He sounds amazing.

And as for lack of money, my DD has just left Private school. Some of the boys were lovely but there was a hard core of boys who embodied Toxic masculinity at only 16, very entitled too. The all female SLT did try to tackle it but some of the behaviour was very questionable

It really bothers me that women and girls might see my lovely DS and DH as a potential threat just because of scum like Wayne Cousens. I brought both my children up to respect others and that's all a parent can do.

@ACPC

It really bothers me that women and girls might see my lovely DS and DH as a potential threat just because of scum like Wayne Cousens. I brought both my children up to respect others and that's all a parent can do.

They’re not seeing them as a threat because of Wayne Couzens, they’re rightly seeing them as a potential threat because men as a class are demonstrably the perpetrators of almost all violent crime. And those perpetrators are someone’s husband or son.

It's also the institutionalised misogyny among the police themselves that we should be really worried about:

Police watchdog probes 16 officers linked to Sarah Everard case:
mol.im/a/10047415