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Original poster

Campaigners lose abortion fight

459 replies

EmeraldRaine · 23/09/2021 16:09

Heidi Crowter and a few others were campaigning to remove the right for women to choose abortion if their baby was found to be affected by Downs syndrome. These campaigners feel that women shouldn't have the right to terminate a pregnancy because the foetus has Downs Syndrome, because it discriminates against people with Downs syndrome.

Cant help but think that this was a victory for common sense. Downs syndrome like every other disability is different from person to person and lots of people would feel unable to cope with a child with a lifelong disability. To say that isn't discriminating against disabled people. The only person who has the right to choose in every single case, is the woman who is pregnant. Perhaps these campaigners would be better off campaiging for better support for disabled people and their carers than trying to remove women's rights to make decisions that are best for them.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-58662846

OP posts:
Samcro · 23/09/2021 16:13

abortion should be available up to birth. problem solved.

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 23/09/2021 16:15

I do have sympathy with them (although I disagree with them).

More support for families with children with disabilities is needed.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 23/09/2021 16:18

Imo abortion should be available to all. For whatever reason they choose.

I don't doubt that, being a person with Downs Syndrome, they want to advocate for the potential future children who will also have DS, but it is simply not for them to say (or anyone for that matter), that a woman should have to continue a pregnancy against her wishes.

Mombie2021 · 23/09/2021 16:19

Agreed. Disgusting that they even tried.

Jobseeker19 · 23/09/2021 16:19

Up to birth will be killing a baby that could live outside of the womb.

How would they do it caesarian then euthanized the live baby?

Samcro · 23/09/2021 16:20

@Mombie2021

Agreed. Disgusting that they even tried.
why is it disgusting?
IveGotASongThatllGetOnYNerves · 23/09/2021 16:21

I completely understand why they feel the way they do but the answer is not forced birth.
Will they adopt babies women weren't allowed to abort and don't want? Pay child support? What about the already bloody shit care system? What happens after birth should be the focus.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 23/09/2021 16:23

Not their body, not their choice and that's the end of it.

Mombie2021 · 23/09/2021 16:27

@Samcro Not their bodies, not their choice. Forced birth is never okay.

MatildaIThink · 23/09/2021 16:28

@Jobseeker19

Up to birth will be killing a baby that could live outside of the womb.

How would they do it caesarian then euthanized the live baby?

There are less than a hundred abortions each year after 24 weeks in the UK, from the evidence presented in court all of those cases were either foetuses which could not have survived on their own even with medical intervention, or cases where the mother would not have survived the remainder of the pregnancy.

The campaigners could note cite one case in the last decade where a foetus had been aborted after the 24 week limit because of Downs syndrome, although some with Downs were aborted because of other, unsurvivable conditions.

Polkadots2021 · 23/09/2021 16:30

@MatildaIThink great post, cutting through any hyperbole or abstractions to the on the ground facts. Really interesting.

Jobseeker19 · 23/09/2021 16:31

I was replying to someone who said they wanted it up until birth.

Clocktopus · 23/09/2021 16:31

I'm glad they lost, although I can understand why they might feel disappointed by the verdict. Their parents had a choice in pregnancy, the parents of children with DS who were supporting supporting campaign had a choice in pregnancy. They have no right to take that same choice away from other women simply because they picked option A and other women might pick option B.

Up to birth will be killing a baby that could live outside of the womb. How would they do it caesarian then euthanized the live baby?

Abortion after 24wks is only allowed in very specific circumstances and the number performed are very small (less than 250 a year) due to this criteria, the stories behind each one will almost always be difficult and sad. Usually the heart is stopped by injection and then the baby is delivered after via either section or induction (whichever is safest).

SmellyOldOwls · 23/09/2021 16:33

@Samcro

abortion should be available up to birth. problem solved.
Yep.
vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 23/09/2021 16:35

It does make me uncomfortable that there is a difference between the point at which a termination is allowed for one pregnancy, but not another.

However, it makes me less uncomfortable than forcing birth on women who do not want to be a mother.

It is a moral maze issue - and if there haven't actually been any late term abortions on the basis of Downs alone, well, how did this get as far as the courts?

ilovemydogandmrobama2 · 23/09/2021 16:37

Not sure I understand the issue - is the case about terminating for abnormalities (which personally I don't believe Down's syndrome is) after 24 weeks?

Handsoffstrikesagain · 23/09/2021 16:41

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

SickAndTiredAgain · 23/09/2021 16:41

@ilovemydogandmrobama2

Not sure I understand the issue - is the case about terminating for abnormalities (which personally I don't believe Down's syndrome is) after 24 weeks?
Yes. A case was brought to challenge that this is allowed.
MatildaIThink · 23/09/2021 16:42

@ilovemydogandmrobama2

Not sure I understand the issue - is the case about terminating for abnormalities (which personally I don't believe Down's syndrome is) after 24 weeks?
Downs Syndrome is a classified as a genetic abnormality, leading to a medical abnormality. Technically that means it would be permittable for a post 24 week limit abortion, the campaigners did not like that.

In court the campaigners could not cite any recent cases of abortion of a foetus with Downs beyond the 24 week limit with Downs as the only factor (as opposed to a foetus with Downs who also could not survive beyond birth due to other medical issues). The campaigners were taking legal action against something which has not happened for more than a decade and which no current doctors or medical establish would sanction.

Grellbunt · 23/09/2021 16:43

@Samcro

abortion should be available up to birth. problem solved.
Woah... no nuance? That's an extreme and distasteful position.
EnidFrighten · 23/09/2021 16:44

They didn't exactly lose, the court said it should be a matter dealt with through parliamentary legislation rather than the courts.

Antinerak · 23/09/2021 16:52

I stand by abortion until birth no matter what the reason is. Children with Down's syndrome should not be born to parents who can't or do not want to care for them. Forced birth is never the right choice, and babies deserve better than to be shoved from pillar to post because they had no choice but to be born.

It's not an attack or insult to those who have Down's syndrome or any other condition that would allow or require an abortion.

Grellbunt · 23/09/2021 16:56

@Antinerak

I stand by abortion until birth no matter what the reason is. Children with Down's syndrome should not be born to parents who can't or do not want to care for them. Forced birth is never the right choice, and babies deserve better than to be shoved from pillar to post because they had no choice but to be born.

It's not an attack or insult to those who have Down's syndrome or any other condition that would allow or require an abortion.

What, even if there is no real reason? Really?
Paranoidandroidmarvin · 23/09/2021 16:58

This is the kind of thing that should be left to doctors to decide. They are the experts.

SunLovingMum · 23/09/2021 16:59

I agree with you UP TO A POINT as simply a mother’s choice whether to abort or not

That POINT is 24 weeks because the babies are most likely viable from then. As they’re viable, at that point I personally think it is murder. The mother could opt at that point for adoption. Better adopted than dead.

With that said, if you’re talking about mother’s life vs baby’s life, that’s another matter but that was not the purpose behind this latest action.