If you were a landlord how would you feel about somebody having 3 kids in your 1 bed flat?

[LLdn45]

Ideally would you prefer they left and made way for a more suitable tenant?

id assume they were under extreme financial difficulty and see if I could help point them in the direction for proper help.

I would think there is the potential for the family to be under a lot of pressure and there could be a problem with noise resulting in the aggravation of complaints from neighbours so I would not want to rent to them.

Wouldn’t prefer them out as such but would be conscious that they weren’t there for the long term.
I have a one bed house I rent out and I often get enquiries from single parents wanting to rent it when it’s vacant, I’ve no issue with them as such but would prefer someone who didn’t have the obvious need to move on in time (although there is no guarantee of this whoever you rent to!)

I'm assuming they didn't have 3 kids when they moved in?
What type of tenancy do they have? Do you have a review after a set period of time?
Your property isn't suitable for the amount of people so I would be worried about the extra wear and tear.

3 kids over a period of time? or they move in after the tenancy was taken, with a new partner or something?

It would be a no from me.

Pregnant with #1 at the point of moving in, #2 came along two years later and now discovered during a routine inspection that #3 is imminent.

Mother is mildly vulnerable I would say, not the best relationship with children's father who appears to be in and out.

Tenant has supposedly approached the council for housing support but none forthcoming due to having a roof over their heads.

Wear and tear is a concern for sure.

It's a rolling tenancy.

The property is in a London burrough where there is a huge shortage of social housing so I don't see any immediate help being forthcoming.

There won’t be help while they are housed. There isn’t even help when the section 21 expires - it’s at the point of bailiffs evicting that the council steps in, and that could a decent amount of time away with the backlog from Covid.

It’s a horrendous situation. I was going to suggest talking to the tenant, but it’s an ordeal to go through, especially with a newborn… and I’m guessing they’d have gone to a different; bigger private let if that was an option, so they are probably feeling quite stuck.

@LLdn45 please don’t serve notice. That’s the last thing she needs. She will be high priority for the waiting list as she is living in cramp conditions.. See here

@TakeYourFinalPosition

There won’t be help while they are housed. There isn’t even help when the section 21 expires - it’s at the point of bailiffs evicting that the council steps in, and that could a decent amount of time away with the backlog from Covid.

It’s a horrendous situation. I was going to suggest talking to the tenant, but it’s an ordeal to go through, especially with a newborn… and I’m guessing they’d have gone to a different; bigger private let if that was an option, so they are probably feeling quite stuck.

The mother said she feels essentially trapped there yes, they are in receipt of some benefits which makes the family undesirable to prospective agents which handle the majority of the private rentals locally.

On/off partner is working but AFAIK is only on minimum wage.

Had a brief chat today about whether she feels hers and children's needs are being met in the property and she says no, but feels unable to do anything about it.

[quote MrsPear]@LLdn45 please don’t serve notice. That’s the last thing she needs. She will be high priority for the waiting list as she is living in cramp conditions.. See here[/quote]
I'll look thanks. I'm not planning on serving notice straight away.

The problem is she has already approached the council on multiple occasions and told there is nothing that can be done at this stage for the current situation.

Waiting lists for council accommodation can exceed 10 years in that particular burroughs.

Is one adult and 3 children in a one bed flat overcrowding? Does it affect your insurance or mortgage if you have one?

She obviously can't stay there long term and evicting her might get the council to step in and house the children appropriately.

Very overcrowded in my opinion, I will need to check about the mortgage and insurance.

Is one adult and 3 children in a one bed flat overcrowding? Does it affect your insurance or mortgage if you have one?

I was wondering about the insurance situation too.

I don't want to be responsible for making a bad situation worse by serving notice as it's clearly a stressful set up as it is, but I don't feel it's sustainable for much longer.

One of the children has special needs which I assumed would hold some weight with the council but I'm told not.

It must be an horrendous situation for them, but you do need to seriously think about your situation.

You need to check your mortgage (if applicable) and insurance details - as this is likely to be over-crowding.

You also need to consider the impact on the property - damp issues can be caused by over-crowding and poor ventilation. Essentially - there will be a lot of bodies in a small space.

Is it possible to contact the LA yourself to check the situation. Whilst the cannot give you specific information under the GDPR, they can give you general advice and details on processes.

Yes that's a good place to start, I'll contact the local authority shortly and see what they say about the situation. Thanks Devon.

I've checked about overcrowding and the general consensus seems to be that children under 10 years don't count as a full person (source shelter) so even having three of them in 1 bedroom wouldn't be classed as excessive, because the parent(s) could occupy the living room.

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/check_if_your_home_is_overcrowded_by_law

This is insanity to me. How can that not be overcrowding? No wonder councils find it so easy to pass the buck and avoid providing housing assistance.

If there are no other issues I would leave it. I would assume they can't afford to rent somewhere larger, if they are good tenants, rent paid etc, I would see no reason to evict.
You could find your next tenant worse.
If you evict, in order to get help with council you'll need to go to court and get bailiffs to remove them or they'll be classed as intentionally homeless. You've said the mother wants council to help her, I would probably offer it to them. But if they're good tenants which I'm assuming they are as not stated any issues, I wouldn't give them notice in these circumstances if they didn't want it to get help from council

As long as they pay the rent on time, it's not really the landlord's business how many children someone chooses to have. If the landlord decides to end their tenancy based solely on the fact that she has children then they will likely find themselves in breach of the Equality Act (2010). Maternity (so pregnancy, having children, or being childless) are protected characteristics under this law so nobody can be discriminated against because of them.

Obviously if rent payment is an issue then that's something a landlord can evict for using the correct legal process but they wouldn't be able to cite the having of children as an issue.

Friend had 4 kids, one w CP in a wheelchair. 6 of them in a minute 2 bed - w stairs the child w CP could not manage. Older ones teens. They didn’t count as overcrowded till the youngest was 5. It’s mad..,

TBH I wouldn't serve them notice especially if social housing is sparse.

If the rent is paid on time, the property isn't being wrecked and neighbours aren't complaining then let them stay.

You could offer to write her a letter of support to give to the council and reference the property really isn't suitable for 4 people

You could buy a wallbed to make the lounge bigger as they fold up against the wall very easily taking up little room.

I wouldn’t be serving notice, especially if she is pregnant. If they are paying rent, they may well stop. For eviction you will need to go to court if they don’t leave. Evicting tenants is a complex and expensive business. No easy answers except that the housing market is completely broken