If you were a landlord how would you feel about somebody having 3 kids in your 1 bed flat?

[LLdn45]

Ideally would you prefer they left and made way for a more suitable tenant?

No rent arrears, complaints from neighbours or damage to the property besides general wear and tear. The walls could do with a freshen up for example.

The kitchenette area needs to be replaced and we've discussed doing that in the spring, not the tenants fault but the result of a plumbing issue that has been rectified.

Just a little reluctant to pour alot of money into the place and it needing to be done again the following year due to the amount of people inhabiting a small space.

Wallbed in the living room might prove helpful for them but could put off future tenants when they move on perhaps?

I won't be serving notice.

@LLdn45

No rent arrears, complaints from neighbours or damage to the property besides general wear and tear. The walls could do with a freshen up for example.

The kitchenette area needs to be replaced and we've discussed doing that in the spring, not the tenants fault but the result of a plumbing issue that has been rectified.

Just a little reluctant to pour alot of money into the place and it needing to be done again the following year due to the amount of people inhabiting a small space.

Wallbed in the living room might prove helpful for them but could put off future tenants when they move on perhaps?

I won't be serving notice.

You remove the bed for the new tenants.

Thanks for helping out the family

I think you’re doing the right thing, OP, but I agree that the flat really is overcrowded-even though the situation doesn’t meet the official criteria.☹️

I'd probably feel really bad for her and also worry about wear and tear and also how it might impact the neighbours.

Shit all round really.

We have alot of time and sympathy for the mother, the on/off partner not so much.

He has left her in a bad situation more than once so I'm glad that the tenancy is in her name only.

I'll have a chat with DH about wall beds and see what he says.

@HalzTangz

TBH I wouldn't serve them notice especially if social housing is sparse.

If the rent is paid on time, the property isn't being wrecked and neighbours aren't complaining then let them stay.

You could offer to write her a letter of support to give to the council and reference the property really isn't suitable for 4 people

This.

I wouldn't kick her when she's down. As long as she's paying the rent ok and no damage.

But, I'd encourage her to try to get legal advice. I know it's not always easy to access in some London boroughs. With support from a decent advice agency (hard to come by in some parts of London), she might be able to get accepted onto the housing register - and, if she's willing to consider moving out of area, she can then look at transfers out).

Many London boroughs prioritise overcrowding above most other issues (often above serious medical need to move and domestic abuse) so it's definitely worth it if she can at least get herself onto the housing register.

Terrible suitation in London. It's the capital of homelessness with 165,000 homeless (meanwhile the Lib Dems are doing the ultimate in NIMBYism - they're complaining about the government limiting the numbers of Afghan refugees....but don't seem to want more housing built to house all the people - Afghan and British alike - who need homes...).

You say she's vulnerable?

Might be worth trying to put her in contact with social services. A family support worker could be useful for her. Her GP can refer her. Or you can, if you have any safeguarding concerns about her and/or the children.

Is it worth talking to her and seeing if she ‘wants’ to be evicted?
My understanding is if she is homeless then she will be higher up the priority list for council housing.
Could you come to an agreement with her to serve notice and evict her so that she can access housing?
Maybe she wouldn’t want that or maybe it’s a terrible idea, I don’t have any experience of these things…

She pays in full, on time, and you e had no complaints from the neighbours. She’s a good tenant to have.

If she wants to move, help her by all means, but don’t serve notice just because there are 4 of them now.

Thanks for the advice.

Vulnerable in the sense of not having much if any support AFAIK, older on/off partner who has left for other women at least twice and she's quite young (20's)

Intelligent and articulate woman in general but in a situation that would worry most parents I think.

No concerns for the children they appear to be well looked after and happy. They've never known anything other than the space they have I guess.

I'm not sure how the suggestion of social services would be received but I could test the waters and ask if she feels there's any support she might need.

Communications are good and I'm keen not to alienate her as she was already concerned about the potential to lose the flat given the new baby.

You seem very fair OP.

She sounds like an excellent tenant.

You remove the bed for the new tenants.

Why on earth would the OP do this? They’re expensive, need properly installing and would require making the wall good when it’s removed. It’s one thing allowing your property to have excessive wear and tear due to the number of people living there, it’s another all together putting yourself out of pocket because the tenants can’t use contraception responsibly.

OP you sounds like a lovely landlord.

@Milkbottlelegs

You remove the bed for the new tenants.

Why on earth would the OP do this? They’re expensive, need properly installing and would require making the wall good when it’s removed. It’s one thing allowing your property to have excessive wear and tear due to the number of people living there, it’s another all together putting yourself out of pocket because the tenants can’t use contraception responsibly.

OP you sounds like a lovely landlord.

Pls read back to what the op wrote.

You would not have a bed in the living room unless you wanted to over occupancy the flat, again

Also stop shaming a mother

Op talk to housing officer at local council
If one of her dc has a disability this could put her higher up the list
If op doesn't give notice the tenant could be stuck indefinitely with her (growing) dc. She may be able to cope now but what about the future when the dc get bigger?
Sadly she might have more chance if op does give her notice - the biggest issue than is where they would move her too. Op could ask -without identifying the tenant - the housing officer about the process -tenant would be offered temporary accommodation for sure - but what type, how long for & whether she would be moved elsewhere?
Once section 21 disappears the tenant could be stuck in ops flat indefinitely & if she has had 3 children she might have another, than what?
In this case a bit of investigation by op to check she isn't disadvantaging her tenant by NOT giving her notice, would be a good idea.

You would not have a bed in the living room unless you wanted to over occupancy the flat, again

Exactly. So don’t put a bed in the living room!

Like the way you assumed I was shaming the mother. I didn’t mention the mother at all but nice to know you never think to hold a father responsible for contraception.

I would think they aren't there by choice.

@Milkbottlelegs

You would not have a bed in the living room unless you wanted to over occupancy the flat, again

Exactly. So don’t put a bed in the living room!

Like the way you assumed I was shaming the mother. I didn’t mention the mother at all but nice to know you never think to hold a father responsible for contraception.

The bed is removed when the viewing starts.

It’s most likely the mother already sleeps
On the couch etc. No need for a bed when she can use a roll out mattess

Op talk to housing officer at local council If one of her dc has a disability this could put her higher up the list

The situation in London is dire. What would (and should) get someone rehoused in most other parts of the UK won't in London. There literally isn't the housing stock. London is suffering a very serious public health housing and homelessness emergency.

If op doesn't give notice the tenant could be stuck indefinitely with her (growing) dc. She may be able to cope now but what about the future when the dc get bigger?

Then she'll qualify as overcrowded.

If she can get some support, she might be able to get on the housing register now. Unfortunately some London boroughs won't accept people on their registers until they meet a priority need category. Support services can be poor in London too, depending on the borough, but there's no harm in trying.

Yes this flat is overoccupied and will really be suffering from excess wear and tear.
You are running a business not a charity. You can help her by agreeing when you will ‘evict her’ and give her an excellent reference. This situation cannot continue.

It's pointless passing judgement about her use of contraception or lack thereof, that ship has sailed the baby is due in a matter of weeks.

Tbh a bed in the living room in a London flat won't be so unusual. Lots of professional flatshares use the living room as a bedroom. Housing in London is so out of control that even doctors (the younger ones) and other jobs traditionally thought of as well paid roles often have to share.

Also lots of couple like to have the option of a spare bed. If someone's ill or a heavy snorer or working night shifts.

It might put some prospective viewers off but it will equally appeal to others. In London particularly so.

A sofa bed would be easier than a wall bed though. Is it a furnished flat? If it's unfurnished, this is where a family support worker might be useful. Help her find out what benefts, loans, and grants she might be entitled to. There are also stores including the British Heart Foundation selling good quality but cheap second-hand furniture.

The flat is part furnished, it came with a sofa (standard L shape one, doesn't transform into a bed) a table and chairs with built in fridge freezer and cooker.

Sympathetic but if there is a separate living room (so not with the kitchen in it) it isn't over crowded or at least not so overcrowded they'd consider her threatened with homelessness as a result.