If you were a landlord how would you feel about somebody having 3 kids in your 1 bed flat?

[LLdn45]

Ideally would you prefer they left and made way for a more suitable tenant?

Waiting lists for council accommodation can exceed 10 years in that particular burroughs.

The council, once they accept her as priority need (when she qualifies) will probably put her in temporary accommodation. Unfortunately it will probably be out of borough. Once in temporary accommodation and on the housing register though, if she's ok with moving away, she can look into getting transferred out. (Obviously not an option if she needs to stay for family and/or support networks).

The UK and London particularly desperately needs more social housing.

@BrilliantBetty

Sympathetic but if there is a separate living room (so not with the kitchen in it) it isn't over crowded or at least not so overcrowded they'd consider her threatened with homelessness as a result.

The living room doubles as a kitchen unfortunately, so if she does sleep in the living room she's effectively sleeping in the kitchen aswell. It's one large room with the kitchenette area on the far wall.

Awful for her, but on the plus side for you OP is, because of her horrible situation, she'll be very keen to keep up with her rent payments and look after the flat. She definitely won't be the sort of tenant to wilfully not pay rent or trash the place.

I think I'll probably get jumped on, but could you serve notice so she has the evidence she needs to get a bigger more appropriate property (not actually with the intention of getting her out). Three growing children in a one bed property isn't really ok is it? Better than being on the streets but not ok and if the only way out for her is for you to serve notice it could be doing her a favour.

In my London borough it’s likely to be one room with shared kitchen and bathroom.

So she’d be worse off and you may end with a smart couple who wont pay rent

The living room doubles as a kitchen unfortunately, so if she does sleep in the living room she's effectively sleeping in the kitchen aswell. It's one large room with the kitchenette area on the far wall.

In that case it, I'm not certain but I think it would qualify her as overcrowded under council definition. Definitely once the new baby is born. She should speak to Shelter. Her HV might be able to help too.

If we were to serve notice minus the intention of actually evicting her that could leave her worse off from what I can tell, because serving notice in itself doesn't make her eligable for council help. That only comes once bailiffs have enforced an eviction and she's on the street.

If I serve her with a section 21 and she presents at the council they will tell her to stay put and wait for the bailiffs otherwise she's making herself intentionally homeless.

If you serve notice, yes unfortunately the council will make her wait until bailiff stage, but then they will put her in temporary accommodation. They won't leave a woman with three children (including a newborn) on the streets. It will be very stressful for her though because a lot of temporary accommodation is out of borough and could be outside London. If she's in need of family or other local support networks, she'll lose that.

I think she needs to check with Shelter about overcrowding. As the kitchen and living room are one, it might count. Particularly once the new baby comes.

I will do some reading up and then give her a call on Monday. Thank you for the good advice so far. It's an unusual situation for us as we're not career landlords and haven't dealt with overcrowding previously.

It's a terrible situation tbh op, it seems like whatever you do won't make you feel particularly good.
Allowing them to live overcrowded like this, potentially for years is no good for anyone but evicting a young family would be awful (although it might open the door to more appropriate accomodation for them).

The housing shortage in this country is terrible and it seems the government aren't really interested in fixing it.

It's a bad situation indeed, very much "damned if you do, damned if you don't"

Why on earth would you get pregnant with being already overcrowded? So unfair on the children.

@Getyetaefuck

Why on earth would you get pregnant with being already overcrowded? So unfair on the children.

I don't think anyone can judge this woman when we know almost nothing about her. There are many reasons why women find themselves pregnant in less than ideal situations.

I would feel sad if it was because they couldn't afford a larger home, and so what I could to make the situation as good as possible.

I dont know. I'm going to hazard a guess and say it wasn't planned given her fears about losing the flat.

As PP said there could be many explanations so I reserve judgement on that front.

The bed is removed when the viewing starts

You can’t just remove a wall bed, which is what was being suggested. They are attached to the wall. The wall would need patching up and redecorating. The original point I was making was why would the OP pay for that? A wall bed is not a good idea.

OP if you were feeling really generous you could replace the sofa with a decent sofa bed.

@FindingMeno

I would feel sad if it was because they couldn't afford a larger home, and so what I could to make the situation as good as possible.

I don't think she can afford a larger home no, definitely not in the area and not on her own.

She works part time and receives universal credits, partner is in and out like a revolving door and can't be relied upon whatsoever IME.

The housing shortage in this country is terrible and it seems the government aren't really interested in fixing it.

Absolutely.

But it also seems there are many people that make poor decisions and don’t help themselves. The government isn’t to blame for that.

I'd feel sorry for her but business is business.
Hopefully the council will see the place as unsuitable for 3 DC plus adults and find them better accommodation.
Does your insurance cover a family of 5 in a 1 bedroom?

DH is looking into our insurance now.

LOL, wall beds cost £2k ish and can’t just be shunted in and out.

If she can find a bigger flat (I know it’s hard now anyway, let alone for anyone on benefits) would she not be entitled to more money to cover the higher rent?

She would be equipped with an excellent reference from you.

If you evict her the council will likely put her in B&B, or one room with a shared bathroom and kitchen, as ‘temporary’ housing. Could go on for months.

You sound lovely OP, but this isn't your problem. You said you don't have welfare concerns, so I'd leave it at that. Wall beds and other space saving devices might not help them in the long run. You said the mother is smart, she can sort these things out if she wants to. You don't want her to feel that you feel she is not coping. I was in a similar ish situation and a midwife thought she was being helpful by referring me to social services, but it made me feel utterly crap and gave me really bad anxiety. SS weren't interested anyway, they came out, did an 'inspection' and declared the children fit and well looked after and signed us off. It left me paranoid for years though (even after we moved).

I'm sorry to hear that @kinzarose

With that in mind then, I likely won't suggest SS. We definitely have no concerns about the children's welfare.

Can I ask though, did the council help you eventually when you were in a similar position or did you manage to upsize yourself? What changed?

I'm at a loss as to what to suggest she does long term so any anecdotal experiences to refer to are very helpful.

I grew up in similar circumstances.
It’s really not ideal but I just wanted to say how kind you are op.