If you were a landlord how would you feel about somebody having 3 kids in your 1 bed flat?

[LLdn45]

Ideally would you prefer they left and made way for a more suitable tenant?

@LukeEvansWife

Empathy is fine. Being a mug is not

OP has already told us her tenant isn't causing any problem. She's paying the rent in full and keeping the flat in good condition.

It's not a good situation for the tenant and the children, and that's the main issue here. Successive governments over the last 30-40 years have created a public health housing emergency. There's an urgent need to build and buy a lot more social housing.

It would be in your interest to find out what the local policy is regarding evictions. Some councils do nothing until the bailiffs are in, some areas will react after a certain period after the S21 is issued to try and reduce the number of people going into temp housing.

The other thing you could maybe do is offer her a current reference? It might help with other landlords options if she’s able to show her current landlord considers her a good tenant.

@LLdn45

Pregnant with #1 at the point of moving in, #2 came along two years later and now discovered during a routine inspection that #3 is imminent.

Mother is mildly vulnerable I would say, not the best relationship with children's father who appears to be in and out.

Tenant has supposedly approached the council for housing support but none forthcoming due to having a roof over their heads.

Wear and tear is a concern for sure.

Wear and tear would be expected since there will be 3 kids. You knew the potential for that when the lady moved in pregnant.

I think landlords have a responsibility for the safety of their homes, and multiple occupation is a safety risk, for health and things like fire risk. It would be irresponsible to let a family stay in what would now be overcrowded housing. However I do feel for her, if I were the landlord I’d be as compassionate as I could, get her good advice and get yourself good advice. Ask for help but ultimately this is not tenable.

This is a slight tangent but social housing per se isn't the solution. People who are housed go on to have more children, thereby becoming overcrowded. There will never be enough social housing to adequately house society's expanding families.
I follow someone on social media who got a 1 bed SH property in London as a single person. She then had 2 dc, her MH was so bad due to the overcrowding (both dc were planned) and has done nothing but complain, blame the government for her depression and "missing out on my baby's newborn stage" (because she was in such a bad mental place) and became suicidal. She then got a 2 bed place and got pregnant with dc3. It's the government's fault again that her 3 dc are now having to share a room

Hold on -legally now the council/housing officer has to start process about a month before - at the very least when you BOOK bailiff & have a date
Join NRLA (£75 a year) they have an advice line & will give you good & accurate & legal advice. If you give notice (& this will take ages to go through these days) you make sure she contacts them straight away (she won't get anything at this stage but its a process) &contact them yourself - when you go to court -notify them, When the court give judgement -notify them when you get bailiff date notify them again & make sure she does.
3 children in a small flat - you are not doing her any favours - technically you are letting her overcrowd the property

@EdgeOfTheSky

LOL, wall beds cost £2k ish and can’t just be shunted in and out.

If she can find a bigger flat (I know it’s hard now anyway, let alone for anyone on benefits) would she not be entitled to more money to cover the higher rent?

She would be equipped with an excellent reference from you.

If you evict her the council will likely put her in B&B, or one room with a shared bathroom and kitchen, as ‘temporary’ housing. Could go on for months.

Months?

Could be years actually!

I do feel sorry for the children, but presumably the mother and father chose to have three children knowing this would be an issue?

Or maybe that’s why they did it- thought they’d be higher priority for housing

You sound like a wonderful, caring human being.

She then got a 2 bed place and got pregnant with dc3.

Freeing up the 1 bed flat for the (many) people, including vulnerable disabled individuals, who need it.

Your argument, is because some (a minority) people have large families in smaller properties, all families and vulnerable low income individuals including the long term sick and disabled, should be homeless?

You think it's preferable to allow the public health housing emergency to continue? For the taxpayer to keep on spending billions on expensive temporary accommodation (and billions more on the associated costs caused by the impact of homelessness).

As for the suggestion that some people get pregnant to get social housing. First, in many parts of the UK those days are long gone. They get housed but frequently it's in the private sector. And secondly, well if we adequately housed people in the first place, they wouldn't need to turn to such desperate measures.

@Mosaic123

You could buy a wallbed to make the lounge bigger as they fold up against the wall very easily taking up little room.

Why should the Op do this? They cost a fortune. The tenant had two more kids, knowing she had no space. Surely if you don't have room, you don't have the children.

Tealight I certainly agree we need more SH, but I don't think it's an overall solution. As individuals, we also have choices to make, particularly regarding the amount of children we have. There was a council house programme on C4 recently and I couldn't believe there were families who went on to have 5/6 children in a small 2 bed flat. These are the same ones that complain that the overcrowding has a detrimental effect on their dc. Then you have a single woman living in a 4 bed alone because her children have flown the nest and "why should I leave because it's my home". The system is wrong as it is, but we will never be able to provide enough SH for everyone, so it shouldn't be trotted out as some sort of panacea every time a case like this comes up.

Do they have relatives in another part of the country. I'm sure they'd get better housing round here (from the council).

Shes already been there for several years. She’s got little money, lives in an area with a housing crisis, and doesn’t have support to move. She may we’ll lose her earned income when she has the new baby. The chances are if you don’t evict her she will be there for years, possibly forever. If she pays the rent and doesn’t cause problems I would leave her. Replace the kitchenette, maybe agree to redecorate every x number of years and help her remove any furniture she doesn’t want etc., and leave her be. You could have a worse tenant and she could have a much worse landlord. A single person living in a one bed flat for many years would probably mean a complete replacement of floor coverings and redecorating. It costs the same to do whether they are mildly tired or absolutely hammered. Living there with 3 teens is a different thing as the potential for neighbour complaints goes up but that’s a job for 10+ years time.

@kinzarose

Tealight I certainly agree we need more SH, but I don't think it's an overall solution. As individuals, we also have choices to make, particularly regarding the amount of children we have. There was a council house programme on C4 recently and I couldn't believe there were families who went on to have 5/6 children in a small 2 bed flat. These are the same ones that complain that the overcrowding has a detrimental effect on their dc. Then you have a single woman living in a 4 bed alone because her children have flown the nest and "why should I leave because it's my home". The system is wrong as it is, but we will never be able to provide enough SH for everyone, so it shouldn't be trotted out as some sort of panacea every time a case like this comes up.

Yes this - we all know there is a housing crisis but it’s not going to solved any time soon so people need to take individual responsibility

I don’t think it’s a question of not caring or the ‘wear or tear’. Well not if I was the landlord. It is that if you are providing housing as a landlord it has to be fit for purpose, with no public health risks.

Overcrowding with children is a public health risk to them, and as a landlord you will have a responsibility to do something about it, which is saying that the accommodation is no longer safe for the tenant and her family. Because it is. I’d get on to the council and as their advice.

Then you have a single woman living in a 4 bed alone because her children have flown the nest and "why should I leave because it's my home".

Actually very often it's simply because there aren't any 1 beds available for her to downsize to. In some areas downsizers have the highest priority for smaller flats - often above all other need categories. There's something very wrong - a sign of how serious the public health housing emergency is - when vulnerable disabled people are left homeless or in homes wildly unsuitable (eg. mobility issues in a top floor flat), because all the 1 beds have gone to downsizers.

Which leads me to...

As individuals, we also have choices to make, particularly regarding the amount of children we have.

Circumstances change. People get sick, or lose their job in a pandemic, or need to flee domestic abuse. None of those things are planned, nor are they a choice.

The cost of housing is spiralling. Essential workers in London and other high housing crisis areas - nurses, teachers, cleaners, etc - shouldn't have children? They can't all 'just move' because, aside from many needing to be close to family or support networks, expensive areas need essential workers just like everywhere else does.

Also if everybody moved, the cheaper areas would no longer be cheaper... We're had numerous threads on here, with vocal hostility from locals towards members of the 'London exodus'.

There was a council house programme on C4 recently and I couldn't believe there were families who went on to have 5/6 children in a small 2 bed flat.

These TV shows always show the more extreme cases. They actively seek out participants who they feel might fit the stereotypes.

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Until she gets rid of the partner, I don't think it will benefit her to get a SH tenancy, unless it's solely in her name. She would probably do well to start with sorting that out before moving on. But OP, if she does not want to improve her situation, I do agree that 3 children, might become 4+. It's It's horrible situation but those involved also need to take responsibility.

Wear and tear would be expected since there will be 3 kids. You knew the potential for that when the lady moved in pregnant

She wasn't pregnant with triplets though, was she?

Would be a no from me too.
How are they all going to live in somewhere that is too small for them? And I'd worry about the conditions they'd keep it in and wear and tear of the flat.