This is Boris’s poll tax moment (and I’m a Tory!)

[PensionQNC]

I am a Conservative who comes from a family of Conservatives.

I am a member of the Conservative party.

I have even worked for my local MP.

I have conservative values.

I think Boris’s decision to increase national insurance such that the working poor subsidise the asset rich is an absolute disgrace.

It goes against all C/conservative values.

I will not be voting Conservative at the next election.

I doubt I will be the only one.

Yes it is. This is literally the main Tory value. Fuck the poor and look after the rich. Has always been. Sadly they’re surprisingly clever at pretending they give a shit. Many are fooled. Maybe not for much longer?

Agree that they are adept at persuading people to vote against their own interests.
A plummy voice and sharp suit, private school smarminess seem to appeal to a lot of ordinary working class people. I think it's a trust thing. They just don't rate people who look and talk like them. Bit like putting your trust in the officer class. ...

As long as the Tories carry on putting the boot into foreigners, the poor and the disabled, they'll stay in power forever. That's the sort of country we allowed Farage to turn us into.

The correct way to greet a racist is "Fuck off you piece of shit - we know where your journey ends". Not "Can I carry your bags, sir ?"

Not a poll tax moment, in fact, I reckon this tax rise could literally be BoJo's most lasting legacy. He will be celebrated for this, ultimately, and even rewarded at Ballot Box.

In the end, meekly accepted by the Commons, no Rebellion.

I am finding it terribly amusing that the clown bumbler will be most remembered for being one of few to grasp the nettle about H&SC spending.

I was surprised Sunak went along with it, he had been described as true low-tax Tory. Guess Not.

It's a10% rise not 1.25%. Its 1.25 percentage points which is actually 10% of actual money

Tory voters who are shocked by this, did you believe the hype about the Tories being the party of hard-working families? Yeah, they didn't mean your hard-working family. If this is going to have a noticeably negative effect on your finances, you're not working hard enough (aka you're not fortunate/lucky/privileged enough) and they don't care about you.
Health and social care services need to be paid for somehow. Raising taxes is the obvious way. There are various taxes that could have been raised. The Tories have chosen the one which will impact the people they don't care about the hardest.

Look on the bright side, if you've got a million-pound pension fund paying you fifty thousand a year, it won't cost you a penny. If you've got a million pound ISA paying you fifty thousand a year it won't cost you a penny. If you've got both it won't cost you a penny. Your children can breathe a sigh of relief that your valuable house and savings will not be frittered away on care costs.

After they inherit, they can bray "I worked hard to get where I am."

On the other hand, if you're on minimum wage or a zero-hours contract with no job security, you can suck it up.

Against Tory values? This is peak Tory. Protect the rich at all costs.

It's quite tragic that people have been merrily voting Tory for years and not realised this. They are not on your side.

It'll play well with the elderly voters who increasingly make the difference in elections and referendums. That's the calculation made.

"Leopards ate my face" sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating Faces party.

He will get away with again and again. We are in for a Tory govt for a long time. The rich are going to get richer, the poor poorer and people will die.
And yet people will still vote for them, hoping to get a slice of the action.

@PersonaNonGarter are you a traditional SE Tory? Cos it seems the Tory party's party strategy is to focus on its new voters in the north at the expense of the traditional Tories in the outer suburbs of London and the SE commuter towns. On the assumption that these people have nowhere to go other than the Tories.

No, not SE now although I was once.

My actual rage comes every political from not understanding how much people NEED a home. It’s so fucking basic. So 1) build more houses and 2) let old people sell their homes and pay for the NHS and not pass on these ridiculous deposits which just serve to inflate the assets further and 3) tax people that complain about housing developments ruining their view.

Ok 3) is hard to implement. But those Boomer objectors keeping their house prices high and now expecting us all to pay for their children to receive an inheritance… gah makes me mad. Families need homes.

@DontMakeMeShushYou

Tory voters who are shocked by this, did you believe the hype about the Tories being the party of hard-working families? Yeah, they didn't mean your hard-working family. If this is going to have a noticeably negative effect on your finances, you're not working hard enough (aka you're not fortunate/lucky/privileged enough) and they don't care about you. Health and social care services need to be paid for somehow. Raising taxes is the obvious way. There are various taxes that could have been raised. The Tories have chosen the one which will impact the people they don't care about the hardest.

No. Making financial contributions on unearned capital gains from the family home is a better way to pay for social care.

@nc8766

No. Making financial contributions on unearned capital gains from the family home is a better way to pay for social care.

I think you've misinterpreted my post! I literally said that there were various taxes that could have been raised. You've even quoted that part of my post. Capital gains would have been one of them. And, yes, it would have been much better.

@PersonaNonGarter families needing homes means less quality tenants for landlords. I own a 2 bed flat in London, my mortgage is £1k per month. My neighbours are mostly renters, some with young families of 2 kids and they are paying £1400 rent per month. If it was easy for those families to buy, there would be fewer people willing to pay such rent. 24% of Tory MPs are landlords compared with 2 of 11 Lib Dem MPs (18%), 4 of 47 SNP MPs (9%) and 17 of 202 Labour MPs (8%).

I am 28 and I have barely met a Tory my age not expecting a huge windfall from parents. they probably have word on the ground that many tories are upset at their inheritance being diminished by care home payments. Even if the inheritance is a suburban semi in Harrow worth 500k and not super glamorous; as most of the second gen immigrant Tory supporters probably do have parents who own property (and in major cities too given current demographics). And of course the traditional tory voters with parents in Weybridge, Beaconsfield have much more to 'lose ' than that.

I think Boris’s decision to increase national insurance such that the working poor subsidise the asset rich is an absolute disgrace.

It goes against all C/conservative values.

What planet are you on?

That is Tory policy.

Poll tax / Council tax was a huge movement of money from poor to rich.

Rates for my first home were £100, everyone who owned a house payed rates on them, the poll tax shoved that up to £2000 and I was earning £7000pa.

I receive ESA, it is 'contribution based' because I have 30+ years NI contributions, but it is reduced because I also have an occupational pension.

They will be going for the old age pension next.

I’m a Tory, I don’t mind the terrible things they do to other people but a 1.25% tax increase and they gone too far

😂😂😂😂😂😂

People never cease to amaze me

@onlychildhamster while I don’t disagree with your maths I think conspiracy theories of why the Tories have done this are a lot less personal than ‘Tory MPs are landlords’ or ‘Tories want the rich to get richer’. I am afraid that’s just cliches about Tories which I know to be bollocks.

Less self interested - and in my view more fucking wrong - is the wider economics. The massive mistake is to believe that any deflation of asset prices would destabilise the economy, GDP and hugely effect consumer confidence. This is a mistake.

We don’t mind when prices come down on electrical goods or food - the same needs to be true of houses. And working people need to be able to keep their own cash as far as economically possible. While unearned wealth should be the target.

@PersonaNonGarter I don't think labour wants house prices to go down either. There are many markets for housing. Someone buying a £5 million house in Primrose Hill is operating in a very different market to someone buying a 500k house in Harrow or a 100k house in Middlesborough. I have no issue with the Primrose Hill house going up or do most people; what is the real issue is ex council houses in London being sold for a million and way above the wages of ordinary people; or perfectly normal houses built for working class families being sold to landlords.Which is why labour and other left wing politicians bang on about council housing, because that is the only way to protect the ordinary people in a capitalist society. in my home country of singapore, the penthouse apartment that Dyson bought cost $73 million but that is of little relevance to the ordinary singaporean who can buy a 3 bed 1000 square feet government apartment for the equivalent of £200k (which is much more affordable than the 400k I paid for my london flat in 2019).

There are more homeowners than renters. Do a mumsnet poll for who wants their house prices to go down. Other than FTB and possibly second steppers with a lot of equity, no one wants it. And of course as Tory voters are older, they are more likely to be homeowners. I don't have the stats in front of me, but most left wing voters are probably home owners to me, like myself. No government will legislate for house prices to fall.

In fact to many younger people, they may see their inheritance as the only way to buy property! and far more useful to them than a 'price crash' as realistically during a price crash, you will not be able to take on a large mortgage and would need a larger deposit as banks tighten lending. Which is why a third of younger people(18-44) support this NI rise. I suppose they are the ones with inheritances. It does support the stat that 25% of first time buyers get financial help from parents for their purchase- these are the same people who will inherit a significant amount.

It's simply not true that conservatives values are that if you work hard you get ahead. And it won't be true until the likes of carers, nurses and teachers are paid enough to ensure that they never need to visit food banks. [the list is not exhaustive].

Conservative values are that if you work hard you should receive a fair reward.

Back in the 50s and 60s this may have been the case. Even now it is what they want you to believe though…

@PersonaNonGarter
Ok 3) is hard to implement. But those Boomer objectors keeping their house prices high and now expecting us all to pay for their children to receive an inheritance… gah makes me mad. Families need homes.

Gah. Paranoia like this makes me mad. Do you seriously think there is a secret society of Baby Boomers with regular meetings discussing how to screw you over?

Nobody ever has a choice regarding their house price. You can’t afford to be benevolent when selling as you are moving on into another house similarly priced. The answer is more homes, not less Boomers. The home building record in the UK is a disgrace.

@PigletJohn
"Leopards ate my face" sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating Faces party.

The best comment yet on the topic. So funny. So true…

Gah. Paranoia like this makes me mad. Do you seriously think there is a secret society of Baby Boomers with regular meetings discussing how to screw you over?

Are you for real? No one needs paranoia, they just need to attend any local ‘planning consultation’ for housing. Boomer, after Boomer, after Boomer standing up saying why no new houses should be built on X field.

They don’t need a secret society - it’s pretty out in the open. And of course, new houses in the village would probably bring the property price down WHICH WOULD BE GOOD.

I have been to a lot of these meetings and yes, its Boomers. And no, to stand up and object you just need to stand up and object.

Often, these Boomers are crackers and barely coherent. But they are motivated voters who turn up while the other demographic are putting their kids to bed or weeping into their avocados. So they get listened to.

That friends/developers thing isn’t really a factor at all. It probably does happen but the council is mainly concerned about 1) re-election. And 2) obligations to be seen to try to find more housing. It’s a balance and 1) always wins. So, Boomers object = fewer homes.