This is Boris’s poll tax moment (and I’m a Tory!)

[PensionQNC]

I am a Conservative who comes from a family of Conservatives.

I am a member of the Conservative party.

I have even worked for my local MP.

I have conservative values.

I think Boris’s decision to increase national insurance such that the working poor subsidise the asset rich is an absolute disgrace.

It goes against all C/conservative values.

I will not be voting Conservative at the next election.

I doubt I will be the only one.

I have just received an email stating 1.25% tax hike.

Underneath,

State Pension increase 2.5%

So where are these extra taxes going again?

I don't understand why anyone is surprised by this move. Older people vote Tory. Therefore go for NI, not Income Tax = keep your core vote happy-ish.

I agree we need to pay more tax to fund social care, but this increase is dishonest and unfairly stacked against young people and working people.

And of course there is the triple lock...

42% of the uk benefits Bill goes on state pension payments - never hear of oaps being benefit scroungers though...

PUNISH THE YOUNG, THE DISABLED, THE POOR

But leave the rich tory voters alone

Like I said, it's despicable but it works for them

I dislike both major parties, I agree that it would have been better to put the rise on income tax rather than National Insurance, but I really cannot understand the huge tantrums that people are having about this. Everyone has paid taxes that are far too low for many years, we have just been through a very expensive economic shock, the health service is dramatically underfunded, social care is a mess and people are having a tantrum about a 1.25% tax rise, designed to help the country just a little bit.

It is infuriating. Continuing to charge national insurance at 12%, but extending it to all employees, including those earning over £50,000 a year, could have raised £14 billion of extra tax a year (tax research UK)

@MatildaIThink

I dislike both major parties, I agree that it would have been better to put the rise on income tax rather than National Insurance, but I really cannot understand the huge tantrums that people are having about this. Everyone has paid taxes that are far too low for many years, we have just been through a very expensive economic shock, the health service is dramatically underfunded, social care is a mess and people are having a tantrum about a 1.25% tax rise, designed to help the country just a little bit.

...and who underfunded the NHS for a decade????

Oh yes....

"Conservative values"

Urgh.

people are having a tantrum about a 1.25% tax rise

The 'tantrum' is about the disproportionate impact on those that can afford it least.

I know many pension age people that disagree with this move, and that increasing higher rate taxes would be far more fair.

@MeanderingGently

MorrisZapp: Yes, Scandinavians pay higher taxes to pay for excellent services....however, they have much, MUCH higher wages too, plus the fact that there is a much smaller difference between those at the top of the earning ladder and those in lower paid jobs. It's a much fairer system than ours.

I'm with the OP - I also come from a family of conservative voters through and through, but this latest has done it for me. I'm on a relatively low wage and every penny counts, I really can't afford to be paying extra NI and don't think I should be propping up our richer brethren who can afford an increase. And this is on top of removing the triple lock on the pensions...I'm not far off drawing my state pension and when I do, it will be my ONLY income, I have nothing else to live on.....

I've supported Boris so far thinking that, well, everyone makes mistakes and we've been through unprecedented times, but I think I'm bloody done with the lot of them now....

It is not "much higher" in Scandanavia, in Norway it is around 20% higher, but Sweden it is only 6% higher, Finland it is lower etc. They generally pay a lot more taxes though, someone on £20k pa (equivalent) in Norway for example would pay three times the tax they pay in the UK, with similar amounts of tax in the rest of the Scandinavian countries. Also their GINI is not that much better than ours, yes there is somewhat of a difference, but when you control for the multi-nationals headquartered in London (which are obviously not headquartered in every country) it pretty much disappears. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

I am economically and socially liberal, liberal in the classic sense, with a libertarian streak, but I also believe in a strong social net and I would far rather then UK had a tax and social system like Norway than the current model. I find it very difficult to lose my shit at the suggestion of a minor tax rise that is very much overdue.

The fact that you have supported Boris this far says plenty, he has been thoroughly incompetent as a PM. Even beating Corbyn he was facing the worst Labour leader in history, and Labour have some incredibly awful leaders in their history!

I vote for both labour and conservative, depending on what one at the time I think is best.

However I’ve only voted conservatives for the past few years as I can’t bring myself to vote labour who are hell bent on diminishing women’s rights.

I wish there was a better third option as I’d vote for them

@GiveMeAUserName123 You've not thought that through at all. The impact of austerity has disproportionately impacted women, women are far more likely to be lower earners so this measure will again disproportionately impact women. The cut to Universal Credit, again disproportionately affecting women. How utterly crazy to suggest that the Conservatives do anything to benefit women.

And Labour's policy on how to fund social care is ? On 'Any Questions' last Friday the Labour spokeswomen said the party was against raising NI. Raise taxes then ?...asked the chair.....her answer was 'maybe'....spineless.

@ssd

He doesn't need traditional tory voters like you. He's got the English working classes conned. He'll be fine.

Sad but true.

It's the cap on care costs that has really pissed me off. Why should someone with millions be limited to care costs of £86k?

@CorrBlimeyGG

people are having a tantrum about a 1.25% tax rise

The 'tantrum' is about the disproportionate impact on those that can afford it least.

I know many pension age people that disagree with this move, and that increasing higher rate taxes would be far more fair.

Those paying higher (and additional) rate taxes are already putting a far higher percentage of their taxes into the government's coffers than those on lower wages. Over the last few years the minimum/national living wage has far outstripped inflation, the tax free allowance is the largest in the EU and has risen far ahead of inflation.

Someone on £20k pa pays 13% of their income as income taxation (IT+NI), and this will only cost them £130 pa.
Someone on £50k pa pays 25% of their income as income taxation (IT+NI), and this will only cost them £505 pa.
Someone on £100k PA pays 33% of their income as income taxation (IT+NI), and this will only cost them £1,130
Someone on £200k PA pays 41% of their income as income taxation (IT+NI), and this will only cost them £2,100

This is not a huge tax rise, it also means that the first two of those examples above still have the lowest effective rate of taxation for their income level in the EU, whilst the example on £100k pa has the 7th highest and the example on £200k pa has the fourth highest.

As I said, yes I would have rather have seen the rise income tax (and NI should be abolished and combined with IC), but in the grand scheme of things this small tax rise is not punitive, it is not punishing and needs to happen several more times before we will get near to the funding levels we need.

I'm afraid i am also completely baffled by the statement:

"I think Boris’s decision to increase national insurance such that the working poor subsidise the asset rich is an absolute disgrace.

It goes against all C/conservative values."

I'm not conservative and probably never will be, but I thought this was basically what being tory is all about? I would be genuinely interested in hearing a more tory alternative to the solution put forward.

Good for you for not voting tory at the next election though.

@ReallyStrugglingNeedsHelp

It's the cap on care costs that has really pissed me off. Why should someone with millions be limited to care costs of £86k?

If two people have spent their lives working, but one saved and paid for a house and the other spent the money, why should one get free care and the other pay?

If two people get ill, but one has cancer and the other has dementia, why should the one with dementia have to pay, but the one with cancer gets looked after from general taxation?

@ReallyStrugglingNeedsHelp

It's the cap on care costs that has really pissed me off. Why should someone with millions be limited to care costs of £86k?

So that inherited money, land and titles stay with the "right" sort of people!

It's quite depressing to read the names on the lists for Eton, Harrow, oxbridge each year...the same names...since the time of the conqueror

Thousands of years of feudalism and no one even sees it

And Labour's policy on how to fund social care is?

I don’t get this point. I can dislike what the Tories do regardless of any plans (or lack thereof!) of Labour. I’d rather have higher standards than just “well it’s better than what Labour would do.”

They all but said (especially Rishi) that they're doing it this way so that if Scotland leaves then the remaining UK isn't left with the additional debt for the social care improvements but none of the assets.

It's pure, cunning, Tory craft.

@PicsInRed

They all but said (especially Rishi) that they're doing it this way so that if Scotland leaves then the remaining UK isn't left with the additional debt for the social care improvements but none of the assets.

It's pure, cunning, Tory craft.

That sounds very sensible, especially considering that I cannot see Scotland being part of the UK any longer than the end of the decade at most and probably far sooner.

If two people have spent their lives working, but one saved and paid for a house and the other spent the money, why should one get free care and the other pay?

example - right now, my DM has worked all her life, in Min Wage jobs, then went through a divorce which left her in masses of debt, she has not been able to buy a house - but because she hasn't worked 'hard enough' to buy her own place at 60 means it should go against her right?

@QforCucumber

If two people have spent their lives working, but one saved and paid for a house and the other spent the money, why should one get free care and the other pay?

example - right now, my DM has worked all her life, in Min Wage jobs, then went through a divorce which left her in masses of debt, she has not been able to buy a house - but because she hasn't worked 'hard enough' to buy her own place at 60 means it should go against her right?

How is having her care paid for from general taxation, should she need it, going against her?

we've been through an expensive pandemic, so sure, there are costs to meet, but the wealth of the UK's 56 billionaires has shot up by £61 billion in the last year (Forbes), so why shouldn't they be asked to throw a few quid in? Why does it have to be the nurses and kids? And me??!

(They own the Tory / EN party, that's why)

I'd have said these were exactly Conservative values.
After the Brexit lies and school meals and Afghanistan and the mis-managing of Covid, it's this that puts you off Spaffer Johnson?