This is Boris’s poll tax moment (and I’m a Tory!)

[PensionQNC]

I am a Conservative who comes from a family of Conservatives.

I am a member of the Conservative party.

I have even worked for my local MP.

I have conservative values.

I think Boris’s decision to increase national insurance such that the working poor subsidise the asset rich is an absolute disgrace.

It goes against all C/conservative values.

I will not be voting Conservative at the next election.

I doubt I will be the only one.

@Rhythmisadancer

we've been through an expensive pandemic, so sure, there are costs to meet, but the wealth of the UK's 56 billionaires has shot up by £61 billion in the last year (Forbes), so why shouldn't they be asked to throw a few quid in? Why does it have to be the nurses and kids? And me??!

(They own the Tory / EN party, that's why)

Er, they have. Most of the income of billionaires comes from a roughly 80/20 split between dividend and capital gains, the tax on dividend is also rising by 1.25%, the same as NI.

Kids do not pay NI.

As for the "And me??!" that proves you are part of the problem, always expecting someone else to pay. We all have to pay more, we all have to contribute, the idea that "someone else" can pay for everything is fanciful.

@beguilingeyes

I'd have said these were exactly Conservative values. After the Brexit lies and school meals and Afghanistan and the mis-managing of Covid, it's this that puts you off Spaffer Johnson?

The believed and still believe the Brexit lies, even the ones that have already been proven obvious lies. They did not care about the school meals because it did not effect their children. They did not care about Afganistan because it did not effect them. They might have done well out of Covid, many did. Where as this asks them to contribute a few hundred quid to society, so they lose their shit having a tantrum.

Since Maggie’s days (and probably before) they’ve just needed to keep enough voters fooled to keep them in power. They do this by deception, eg: British Gas shares, BT shares, WILL MAKE YOU RICH, will make you ‘one of us’ ie: a fat cat.

Voters don’t necessarily have to fully subscribe to fat cat status (I’m sure a lot don’t) maybe just ‘well off with the kids at private schools’, which is basically to do better than the scummy riff-raff of society.

As long as they can keep selling this dream concept in the few weeks before each election, with the pathetic opposition currently in place (and most voters’ dismal lack of knowledge of current affairs) they will crack on with their monetarism which will continue to screw you over.

It takes quite a while for Tory voters to realise this and stop dreaming. (well done OP!)

In the meantime, unfortunately, more dreamers come along and fall for the greed spiel.

It’s recently been exposed that they (not you) made money out of Brexit.

It’s recently been exposed that they (not you) made money out of Covid.

Get off your time wasting Social Media etc and educate yourselves! Educate your offspring!

I don’t necessarily have a problem with everyone being asked to contribute more (though it should be proportionate rather than a blunt sledgehammer approach). The bigger issue I have is the notion that this contribution is going to make even a dent in the social care problem

We have inadequate housing options, an underpaid and undervalued workforce with huge recruitment and retention issues and an older population that continues to grow at a pace totally unforeseen by those who set up the system.

The whole system needs a root and branch review and redesign, which will take a minimum of 4-5 years to do with anything like the rigour it needs. We have known about this for years, as have this government for the entirety of the time they’ve been in power. Yet they have continually pushed the can down the road and we are still NO nearer resolving this.

Sure, this NI proposal has generated negative headlines - but that’s been part of the calculation, as they can at least try and claim they’re doing something. In reality, we’re allowing ourselves to be distracted from the much bigger issues when we focus on this.

MalFunkshun... a grown-up contribution, rather than tiresome, juvenile insults.

Very well put @MalFunkshun.

It’s for shame that people have no time for politics. (this thread has not grown much…)

In the meantime, neighbours, parking, and toilet habits are fascinating apparently.

Talking to various people after Brexit I was astounded how some had made their decision. No way am I interested in telling someone what to think and how to vote, but the incredible lack of knowledge in the 40s 50s 60s age groups about the EEA, European trade, external trade, tariffs, and who did what and when concerning the EU, amazed me.

Most people seemed to think bananas and sausages were a key issue, and the forriners of course.

From above: “In reality, we’re allowing ourselves to be distracted from the much bigger issues when we focus on this.”

This is exactly what the current cabinet want.

How does it go against all Conservative values? Isn't shafting the poor to benefit the rich what they always do?

It’s for shame that people have no time for politics. (this thread has not grown much…)

There is another thread on this topic that is at 39 pages.

Helpful.

Thank you.

I am a Conservative party member and am properly shocked.

I mean, WTF is this with protecting house prices endlessly?! Why?

It’s just outrageously unfair. And I miss Theresa May.

I don't know much about this, but it seems to me to be pretty much in line with tory values. Tax the poor (relatively) more than the rich. Leave property, shares, other income out of the equation. Leave corporations alone.

I saw the £86k cap and if I'm right, this cap applies to someone with their £2 million pound house in London as much as it does to someone elsewhere with a house worth £150k? (Maybe I'm wrong there).

And the PP who's voted Tory because they feel they value women more than the labour party (presumably just because of the labour party's views on self ID) - what planet are you on? I can't think of many tory party policies that haven't affected women more than men. Buy hey, self ID, that's more important than feeding your children? (and I speak as a very firm GC Feminist).

@MatildaIThink

I dislike both major parties, I agree that it would have been better to put the rise on income tax rather than National Insurance, but I really cannot understand the huge tantrums that people are having about this. Everyone has paid taxes that are far too low for many years, we have just been through a very expensive economic shock, the health service is dramatically underfunded, social care is a mess and people are having a tantrum about a 1.25% tax rise, designed to help the country just a little bit.

I’d be considerably less pissed off, if Dido Harding hadn’t been given £37 billion for a track and trace that didn’t work and no expectation of repaying anything. I’d be less pissed off if we didn’t have one of the worst death rates from Covid and one of the worst economic hits. And I'd be considerably less pissed off if the govt had made even the smallest gesture of looking to a wealth tax or to closing tax avoidance loopholes.

who the hell admits to being a tory how embarrassing

Also it’s a 1.25% percentage point rather than 1.25%.tax percentage rise. I’ll be paying about 10% more National Insurance, which is quite significant.
(I’d actually be happy to pay it if it were proportionate and fair, and if I didn’t think that there was another Dido Harding just waiting to receive her billions from our taxes.)

@TomNookk

who the hell admits to being a tory how embarrassing

That's a mature response.

@beguilingeyes

I'd have said these were exactly Conservative values. After the Brexit lies and school meals and Afghanistan and the mis-managing of Covid, it's this that puts you off Spaffer Johnson?

… not to mention the dismantling of democratic checks and balances: the judiciary being “enemies of the people”, political appointments where they have no place (eg. Trying to shoehorn Paul Dacre into head of Ofcom role), the cynical gerrymandering … Yet this is the hill you die on!

It’s for shame that people have no time for politics. (this thread has not grown much…)

Swymlin anyone who admits to being a Tory on mumsnet gets a less than sympathetic reception (see TomNookks post upthread for example).
Therefore political discussions on here tend to be one sided.

Better late than never OP.

Its ONLY Tory voters who will influence government thinking on this. Cos we will be the ones who are now walking out.

The wealthy elderly can and should sell their homes to pay for care.

Yes OP.

I'm a conservative voter, come from a family of conservative voters, married to a conservative. I fit the bill - immigrant parents who took every opportunity (including jobs as cleaners), never received hands-puts, and worked their way up to business owners and now well-off, could afford to send me to private school, lovely holidays etc.

But this?? I'm disgusted. No idea why we aren't taxing UNEARNED capital gains from homes purchased 20-40yrs ago and have benefitted from the biggest house price growth of all time.

Instead, the idea to tax young, working people who happen to be the first generation who is WORSE OFF than their parents, is an absolute disgrace.

It's a hard sell when they waste so much money and give out massive contracts to friends etc. Asking people to pay more tax is one thing, but people would need to know it's going to be spent efficiently. £37 billion disappeared on test and trace would suggest it won't be.

The ENP Tory party have been paying VERY close attention to what trump and the gop have gotten away with its quite clear to see that most of their policy is straight out of the trumpian playbook

Can you expand on this? For starters there are hundreds of refugees coming here everyday. So I am interested in which bits of Trumpian playbook.

@AlexaShutUp

How does it go against all Conservative values? Isn't shafting the poor to benefit the rich what they always do?

Conservative values are that if you work hard you should receive a fair reward. The low to middle earners who are having a tough time of it right now due to everything going up in price are now going to essentially have a pay cut. A Big State is not what the Conservatives should be about. They are supposed to scale back state involvement in citizens’ lives.

Let alone the whole issue about the pensioners being subsided. It’s all so wrong.

I just think this is a disgrace. Boris will pay for this at the next election. Well, he may not, but the party will.

@PersonaNonGarter

I am a Conservative party member and am properly shocked.

I mean, WTF is this with protecting house prices endlessly?! Why?

It’s just outrageously unfair. And I miss Theresa May.

I know! It put home ownership even further out of the reach of first time buyers.

@AlexaShutUp

How does it go against all Conservative values? Isn't shafting the poor to benefit the rich what they always do?

No.