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Shy dd been chosen to sit next to loud, disruptive child. Should I say something?

108 replies

life9000 · 07/09/2021 07:01

My dd is at primary school and very shy. Her first day back was yesterday and she had a good day.
One thing she told me was that she has been seated next to a girl who is,in her words, naughty.

My dd has felt intimidated by this girl before as she doesn't listen to the teachers, even after getting warnings or head teacher visit.
She is very disruptive and talks much older than her age.

I have no idea why they would sit these two children together. I'm worried my dd will fall behind in her work now and will be too shy to tell the teacher why. Possibly ending in her getting told off too.

Should I talk to the teacher about this? I know it's only been a day but I'd rather sort it before it's a problem.
Dp thinks I should wait a while and see how things go. He's hoping dd will be able to sort it out herself.

OP posts:
MinesAMassiveSalad · 07/09/2021 17:07

Good luck op. You are your child's advocate.

icepackplease · 07/09/2021 17:10

Many years ago now in Y5 I was seated next to a boy who I anticipate was not NT. He was disruptive and would pinch and try to bite me. My mum spoke to the teacher who explained she was hoping my studious influence would rub off. I wasn't seated next to him for long.

MinesAMassiveSalad · 07/09/2021 17:11

Having said that I'd wait and see what transpires before wading in.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Wishihadanalgorithm · 07/09/2021 17:13

Why should a well behaved child be made to set a good example to child who clearly has ‘difficulties’?

I’d contact the school and say DD is concerned that she has been put next to the boy because of his behaviour. I’d let them know you’re not requesting either child be moved but if DD comes home unhappy with things he says or does (violent or disruptive) then you will expect them to be separated as your daughter’s education and safety should not be compromised.

mafted · 07/09/2021 17:16

It might be temporary, in my DC school they swap partners every couple of weeks.

Leafstamp · 07/09/2021 17:16

@fallfallfall

personally i don't see this as a helpful life experience. not educationally and not long term as a woman. will she learn to put up with bad behavior from a boyfriend? will she learn to put up with abuse at work (that low lying soul destroying stuff)? will she go on to think she can help an addicted friend yet only be enabling? women accepting their "place" starts somewhere and for me it starts right there in a classroom putting up with shit seating partners. disruptive students need help and that help should come from trained staff not another student.
This.

Society has a lot of problems because of socialisation of girls leading to women feeling like it’s fine to be used as a support human. Not on.

Iputthetrampintrampoline · 07/09/2021 17:32

@tiredanddangerous

The teacher will know because it will have been done deliberately. It's a common tactic to sit the disruptive child next to the best behaved unfortunately.
This is so true and I hate it. It is not the childs job to calm another out of control child. My dds teacher did this 5 times one year and everytime I had my dd coming home complaining of being disturbed, Give it a couple of days OP see how it goes then make it known the teacher is to shift. Its shit when kids get disrupted and we have to have this farce.Dont stand for it.
SingingInTheShithouse · 07/09/2021 17:35

I'd raise your concerns as your DC has raised it & finish with, "I hope this won't become a problem for my DC, otherwise you risk teaching him that good behaviour, just gets him poor choices in desk mates.

My DD was like yours & they did this time & again with her, they also had her mentoring English second language kids. I & she didn't mind as she initially enjoyed it & was ahead in class, so it consolidated her learning & helped her confidence, but it lead to bullying & a whole load of stress for DD & if I could go back, I would not have been so open to this set up from day one

gnarlyauldboiler · 07/09/2021 17:43

Nah, I wouldn't put up with this. My quiet, well behaved aspie ds regularly had to put up with a succession of rowdy, badly behaved children and it caused him no end of stress and anxiety. He also didn't learn anything.

Stompythedinosaur · 07/09/2021 18:25

There is a world of difference between speaking to the teacher about an incident that has actually happened (should the other dc harm or cause distress to them) and speaking to the teacher because you have predecided their partner is a bad kid who is likely to do these things.

I think everyone who is seeing this as a good kid/bad kid situation is a bit blinkered. Both dc will have positive qualities and areas they are working on. Maybe the teacher feels op's dc will benefit from sitting with a more confident or outspoken dc as much as the other dc would benefit from her example of good behaviour?

fallfallfall · 07/09/2021 18:34

@Stompythedinosaur outspoken who on day one introduced her to choice swear words. Certainly not outspoken in the right way at age 8.

MushMonster · 07/09/2021 18:37

Yes, say it!
This happened to me so many times!
At the end, they had to move one stupid idiot out of my way in primary. The teacher was quite shock that I had started to bother him, out of character for me. He turned up to innapropiately touch a girl ( in primary!) the year after. I found him vile!
I made friends with another, who was naughty, but good in character.
Then, again, in secondary. I finally asked the teacher not to sit me with them, as she sent me to the back of the classroomm, and I could not see the board or hear her well enough. So she moved the disruptive pupil with me, to the front of the class. I was ok with this lot. At the end, they turned up to be nice, just not interested in the lessons.

But... I had to put up with quite a bit of shit, both in primary and secondary, from some of the lot. And I was so quiet.... it took me a while to speak out.

I did learn though. I did make some unlikely friends. And I now I have to speak up when things get to a certain degree of discomfort.

colouringindoors · 07/09/2021 18:37

If your dd is unhappy about this at the end of the week, yes.

Teachers do this a lot. I am a teacher. It's still lazy.

GreyhoundG1rl · 07/09/2021 18:41

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

Think this is all a bit ott- the child has to sit somewhere and I’m sure the teacher will pick up if they are negatively affecting your child
The teacher is well aware they'll be negatively affecting some child, so I wouldn't bank on that.
FrownedUpon · 07/09/2021 18:50

Who would you like the ‘naughty’ child to sit next to? Perhaps you think she should be sat on her own at the back of the class.

BananaPB · 07/09/2021 18:55

Someone has to sit next to the disruptive kids so everybody should have to suck it up for a bit. I would wait and see what happens . There is always a small chance that the child might change their behaviour and there are times when unlikely friendships happen between polar opposites.

My kids have been the victim of this classroom management technique so I have asked the teacher to move one of them when problems arose. I understand that they may have to sometimes sit with kids with behaviour issues but there's 38 weeks in a school year so I'd expect it not to be for longer than is fair. In primary my kids needed me to tell the teacher what was happening on their behalf.

BananaPB · 07/09/2021 18:59

@FrownedUpon

Who would you like the ‘naughty’ child to sit next to? Perhaps you think she should be sat on her own at the back of the class.
There's 38 weeks in a school year and the day is naturally split into a few periods like until break/lunch/hometime. It's much easier to tolerate sitting next to a tricky personality if it's just for a couple of hours rather than the whole day. Some seating plans seem to be for a half term/whole term which is difficult when you're sat next to a person with behavioural issues.
life9000 · 08/09/2021 07:30

My dd came home upset yesterday. The other child was physically aggressive and threw pens/pencils at other children. My dd didn't get hurt but was obviously scared and thought she would.

The girl was sent to the head teacher for a while but when she returned dd said she felt scared. She then was whispering to dd all the names of the children she didn't like, asking my dd if she liked them. Apparently if my dd said yes she did like that person, the girl pushed my dd arm.

Without a doubt I will be speaking to the teacher today.

OP posts:
fallfallfall · 08/09/2021 07:42

@life9000 positive thoughts that goes well.

Fetchthevet · 08/09/2021 07:42

Good luck OP, you are doing the right thing. Your child should not have to put up with this. My DD is in the same situation, unfortunately.

To the person asking if the disruptive child should sit on their own at the back - yes they should. They need to learn they can't behave like that and get away with it.

DominicRaabsTravelAgent · 08/09/2021 07:47

Good luck with the Teacher today. If you don't get a satisfactory response, I'd see the Head next. No child should have to put up with this all day at school.

WeatherwaxLives · 08/09/2021 07:55

I was the 'good' kid sat next to the disruptive kid.

It was completely unfair of the teacher to use me the way she did. I had a bowl of counters and the other child had a jar. If he was naughty I had to put a counter in the jar. If he had more than x counters he missed break / got detentions / some sort of sanction.

I spent most of the time feeling sorry for him and not putting counters in when I 'should' have done because I didn't want to be responsible for him getting punished, and I was scared he would retaliate.

It all came to a head when he was really disruptive, the teacher lost her temper and came flying over, shouting, grabbing handfuls of counters and shoving them in the jar - they were everywhere, she was really frightening.

I went home and told my DM, it was the first she had heard of the situation, and she was not happy. I don't know what she said, but the counter system disappeared and he wasn't sat next to me anymore. DM was a TA at the school, so my teacher must have intentionally not mentioned it to her in the staff room, which just shows she knew it wasn't fair.

As an adult I've discovered I'm an introvert. I really wish society would accept that is just as valid as being an extrovert. And it's who I am, it's not something I've chosen, and it's not something I can or should be expected to change.

ChateauMargaux · 08/09/2021 08:04

Speak up. This is a terrible classroom management technique that leaves shy children isolated from opportunities to make friends, affects their learning and leaves them in a position where they feel responsible for the behaviour of someone else. It reinforces complaint behaviour, particularly in girls, rather than allowing them to form normal classroom relationships. Listen to the people on those thread who have experienced this and still remember the impact it had on them in adulthood. I am very wary of the narrative that this teaches children resilience and life skills. Children learn when they feel safe and nurtured, when they feel listened to and that their needs matter. The collective is important but so is the individual. We should not sacrifice the needs of the mild, the weak, those not able to advocate for themselves, those who are more likely to comply with authority.

There are other ways of managing seating plans that are better for this situation, it is up to the teacher to find create solutions but some suggestions include changing positions every week or for different subjects, using larger tables, keeping disruptive children close to the teacher, bringing in extra classroom support for specific subjects.

My daughter did whatever her teacher praised her for and she got on with her own work easily. Without fail, teacher after teacher put her with noisy children who needed help in class. She spent her time managing their behaviour and helping them with their work. She hates noise and fidgeting. Even in secondary school, this carries on. When group work comes up, they mix up the groups so they put conscientious kids with those less diligent so the work gets done and all kids share the grade. It is infuriating for her and this is not how final outcomes are assessed so all that does is harm her grades in the meantime and hinder her learning. Many teachers have used the lazy answers..

'it tests the brighter children if they have to explain the work to others'... I agree up to a point, but for 80% of the time, it stops them cracking on with their own understanding and challenging themselves.

'It helps them develop life skills and builds build resilience'.. they fare so much better when they are in a group of like minded people or failing that, people they like! We wouldn't expect a bookish librarian to be thrown into a trading floor to build resilience. When we are adults we have more freedom to choose the culture of the places we work in and who we choose to spend time with.

I am ranting now... but speak up for her, she has asked you to. If the teacher provides reasons as to why she has made this choice, challenge them from the point of view of the experience of your child. It is not about putting another child in her place, it is about finding better solutions.

lollipoprainbow · 08/09/2021 08:06

This is a recurring problem for me too. My dd has sen and is very quiet, she has always been paired with another girl who I suspect has sen but it hasn't been confirmed who is very bossy and controlling towards my daughter. They split the classes this year and I hoped they wouldn't be together again but lo and behold they are. I have raised my concerns with the sen team but nothing gets done about it.

ChateauMargaux · 08/09/2021 08:10

I have just read your latest post... good luck.

And the absolute last thing a teacher should do in this situation is ask the child if they want to be moved or if they like sitting where they do.

My daughter was truly miserable at school for a while and the travher would sit her down and ask her how the week had been, if there were things they could change, what things she enjoyed doing. She did not know why she was miserable at school and she did not have the answers as to what would make it better. Observing her behaviour would have given more answers.