Should private schools be abolished?

[JoshLymanIsHotterThanSam]

Link.

I found this an interesting article. I did not realise that we now have one of the worst social mobility records in developed countries. I find this concerning. I am a fan of the grammar school system having been educated in one myself and having a DC who attends one. I have little experience of private schools though. If I'm honest if I had the money I wouldn't hesitate to use a private school, but that is down to the fact that I realise that it gives a leg up to the students attending, however I realise that this should not be the case.

Should we abolish private schools in the interest of fairness?

MasterGland Gove's reform selected the criteria and now they are leaving a massive amount of children behind and/or totally disenfranchised with education and their place in society.

I went to a private school in the 90s on a government assisted place.

It gave me opportunities I would never have had and a level of teaching that I wasn't getting in my local school. I was a gifted child, I needed more than my schools could give me.

I think more places in private schools need to be offered to nonpaying students.

I think more places in private schools need to be offered to nonpaying students there are some but depends on school and how wealthy it is

Bryonyshcmyony

I met with my MP (a few times pre covid) who regularly tells me that we've never had it so good and no one complains. Which would be great, if I didn't know that there are regular campaigns and parents often write.

But I live in a Tory safe seat and people moan but then vote the same way which has a detrimental affect on lots of things, not just education.

I agree that bursaries are a very good way of private schools providing opportunity to children who aren't from wealthy backgrounds. But schools are also businesses who have to stay afloat.

I have a friend who's a head and another a bursar, both having worked at various private schools around England. Money is often quite tight. Many private schools are not swimming with big cash reserves such that they can offer a much higher number of bursaries, particularly with funding increased pension requirements. Many rely on the generosity of donations from alumni to fund projects. Some have gone out of business. The Eton type schools with mega rich parents and alumni do not represent the majority of private sector schools.

I'm not sure how much it would help as people could still pay for tutors/extra curricular activities/send their DC abroad.

I would rather spend the government time/effort on improving state schools.

These threads really annoy me - mainly because I am a pedant. I get the impression that when people talk about banning private school, they mean banning schools like Eton. Most private schools aren’t anything like Eton.

So, if it means all paid for education must be banned, what does that mean? The nursery school I sent my children to was paid for. So is the ballet school held in a church hall behind my house.

A friend gets a student to come once a week to sit in on her children’s music practice, supervise homework and make dinner. Would this be outlawed? Bit of a shame for that student making some extra spending money.

Why don't we ban anything good for anyone. All in the name of equality.

@Peaseblossum22

In answer to the OP, I'm not sure 'abolishing' private schools is the answer, but making 'contextual' university offers might be, which is sort of already happening.

Why should the University sector have to make up for the failings of the State education system . So we we are saying is that our publicly funded national education system is unable to prepare its pupils after 14 years of compulsory schooling for our own universities . Can you see how ridiculous that is ?

Why should the university sector be allowed to acknowledge the advantage in grade attainment a private education should confer (and if it hasn't, that's 14 years if fees down the drain 😂)?

That's the flip side of what you've just written.

Universities should educate the brightest for the good of the nation, not the 'best-prepped'.

@Andante57

But lots of politicians kids go to state already?

Yes exactly. So why aren’t these politicians doing something to improve state schools?

They pretty much always go to grammars or top flight comps, don't they?

I doubt you'll find many MPs DC in St Bog-Standards comp, do you?

Presumably universities actively want students who get excellent grades and they often come from private school. They still have to take exams and an A is an A

"Best prepped" ? Don't you mean taught? Let's not pretend state schools aren't trying to help kids pass exams.

Contextual offers are a thing, although ime some kids going to good unis with BBB aren't going to cope.

Nobody wails louder about contextual offers than parents who have paid for private education.

Universities should educate the brightest for the good of the nation, not the 'best-prepped'.

But surely the best prepped should be the state educated.

What is the point of having a state education system if we are just saying ‘ well it’s pretty useless , can’t even educate people well enough to get in do we’ll just lower the bar and acknowledge its a hopeless cause’

What you are effectively saying is that our state education service , that’s the one that we pay taxes to educate our children is not fit for purpose. And worse we should just accept that as inevitable and lower the standard because obviously we can’t expect people to be educated to a high standard by the state .

How ridiculous, it makes my blood boil. And for the record if you want to study maths at degree level you can’t just go it because you are ‘bright’ you need to have been given the right tools and that’s what our education system should be doing.

@Iamthewombat

Nobody wails louder about contextual offers than parents who have paid for private education.

Actually we don't. We understand the rationale behind it. We also accept it means, in reality, that my son who has 10 x 9s at GCSE and 3 x A star for UCAS predictions is unlikely to get an offer from the university of his choice (not Oxbridge). (Ignoring the importance of the personal statement as a factor too).

We're not wailing or moaning, it's the way the system is now.

Denial AND a stealth boast! Great work!

Actually we don't. We understand the rationale behind it. We also accept it means, in reality, that my son who has 10 x 9s at GCSE and 3 x A star for UCAS predictions is unlikely to get an offer from the university of his choice (not Oxbridge).

Really? He can’t do any better though? So how is that not just excluding him

Not really. Simply to point out that his grades won't be the obstacle, it will be him going to private school. We're not all unreasonable "wailers" as you put it.

Also , how are universities meant to identify the ‘brightest’ if not through our education system .

Clearly we can’t rely on A levels because people might be ‘better prepped’ . Presumably the same goes for entrance exams . The US experience has shown that SATs are biased towards certain groups ( very good American Life podcast on this if anyone is interested) and raw intelligence tests would only show raw scores and not the ability to cope with particular subjects . If you ignore exams and go with personal statements that has also been shown to bias those who are able to access extra curriculars, travel , have more highly educated parents etc

It is not fair to land all of the failings of 14 years of education into the hands of a few admissions officers at universities . University is 14 years too late.

The royal we hey @sub453

Contextual offers. Sigh. Neither of my high(est) performing all A*s in GCSE and A level kids had contextual offers. Not a single one among the ten separate universities they applied for, for two very different degrees. They are not handed out like sweeties you know. Friends who sent privately used to say 'oh yours will be ok - they'll get contextual offers. Our teachers/head tells us this happens a lot in state sector.' Well not IME! And believe me my DC's school was an underperformer.
It really is a myth that contextual a are common or standard. And they certainly don't happen for Oxbridge.

Contextual offers DO happen - I am in education, and have friends on admissions board in a variety of UK universities. However, that doesn't mean it's easy to get in anywhere or that a pupil would automatically get in over morr privileged pupils. It's also a very inexact science.

@MsTSwift

Cynically I think that’s true.

I really don’t think private education is such a thing on the continent. I hosted European language students for years mostly from Italy and Holland and they looked blank when I asked about private schools. There seem to be a few for very religious families but generally everyone seems to go to the state schools.

True. I'm in Italy and apart from semi-private military academies or specialist sport high schools which also take weekly boarders (but these aren't totally private anyway- they're state boarding schools mainly) private schools are considered to be inferior to state ones. There's certainly not the Eton/Harrow/Marlborough kind of school.

No

I think some of the people saying private schools should be abolished have no experience of private schools.

Why do you think that @ufucoffee?