Ds wants to join the army

[Mum060708]

Ds is 15 and has been talking about joining the army. Not every single day, but whenever we have any sort of conversation about his future he tentatively mentions the army. So I need to start taking him seriously I think.
But I'm completely of my depth. I don't know anyone who is in the army, apart from compulsory service during the war we don't have anyone in our family, I don't have any friends with army connections, no-one.
How do you even start joining the army? He's clever but lacks confidence. I know you can join the army at 16 or 17 but is it ok for me to say he needs to be 18 and finish school first?
He's quite an anxious person but in many ways I can see that the routine of the army might suit him. If the toughness of it doesn't break him it really might be the making of him.
But I think he's got quite unrealistic expectations too. For example he thinks that when he leaves the army he'll be set for life with a whole world of job opportunities open to him. He hasn't thought about the ex-servicemen who struggle with civilian life when the routine is taken away from them and who can't find jobs or homes. He hasn't thought about the potential to be quite badly injured.
I suspect some of his desire to join the army comes from computer games and war films. But I don't want to just rubbish his ideas, that's not fair. He's always been interested in military history and knows so much. So maybe it would be a good fit for him.
I've looked on the web at the army recruitment page but it's all very glamorous obviously.
Where can I get some better and more realistic information? When is a good time to start encouraging him to speak to someone? Who should he speak to?
Any experiences and pointers welcome, I'm feeling a bit lost.

It’s certainly a way of life rather than a job. I grew up as a ‘patch brat’ and my job has been on and off involved with the forces, either RAF or Army. What I can say is:

RAF has a less laddish / drinking culture. This is slowly changing in the Army but is still pretty prevalent amongs the infantry (who I work with).

Housing is provided for families but the service personnel move every 2-3 years so it can be a disruption. Or the family stays in one place and the serving person commutes weekly.

Deployments can be tough on those left behind. Options for travel can be great but there are fewer posting overseas now so travel is more often than not without the family. This might not bother your DS!

Food can be crap - Sodexo have / had the contract and it was rubbish at times, or so those I worked with told me….

Your knowledge of the reserves is about 20 years out of date Julia. A huge part of the AF are now reserves, TA and its culture are long gone.

Debauchery in the navy is a bit notorious (dont know if thats good or bad for op's son)

Another cadet mother here. My daughter said she wanted to join cadets and tbh I silently lolled as she is very assertive, stand up for the under dog and I never thought she would last. To many rules, to much structure. She is LOVING it. She already wanted to be a Dr but since starting cadets she has a proper plan to join the forces during the third year of her degree. They offer sponsorship and then she would basically complete that course and enroll as a junior Dr and have more training. It's an excellent starting salary and only gets better with time. Her goal is surgeon and she is academically bright enough and certainly had the unshakable self belief to succeed if she puts the effort in.

My brother was in the forces. He did 12 years I think based in logistics. He had a total blast and came out, retrained in computer security and is earning a fortune. No mental health issues. My brother in law did 8 years starting in infantry. Saw lots of blood and did some things that have stick with him. 12 years on and he is still struggling with his mental health and doesn't seem to want to get help. He relies heavily on his squadron mates and they all talk daily. A few of them have drug issues etc. But they all seem to be the ones that are lower down on the totem pole.... the ones out doing the dirty work . ( not all obviously)

I would strongly suggest cadets. My daughter has had a total blast. £15 a month and all uniform is provided. She's learning sailing, goes camping, and has logged 10 flight hours !

My son is in the RAF and is deployed in an aircraft carrier in the Pacific as I type . He is loving it. Been in for 3 and half years now.

DS1 joined the army at 19. I thought he’d go in after university but he deferred for a year so that he could put his application in for selection. He was successful so ditched the university idea.

Being in the army has been the making of him and I’m incredibly proud of him. Before he joined he was quiet and meek and had very little confidence. Now he walks with his head held high and will talk to anyone. He’s an excellent soldier and is doing brilliantly in his career.

We’re a military family. DH has a few months left in the RAF, so we know other army families who we could talk too. At first DS1 wanted to be an infantryman but he was advised against that. He’s a cavalry man in a reconnaissance regiment. He’s learnt some mechanical skills on the vehicles he uses and has extra driving qualifications.

Since he’s been in the army he’s been all over the world. He grabs every opportunity with both hands. If there’s anything that can be volunteered for he does. He’s been to America to train with the US army. He always does any adventure training that he can. He’s away a lot but that’s the nature of the beast.

Wrt what happens when he leaves, we’ve just been through that with DH. You do get offered a resettlement package. DH’s plan was properly messed up because of Covid, however he liaised with his resettlement advisor on a regular basis and as a direct result of her help and advice he started a new job last week. It’s very similar to what he was doing in the RAF. He will get a good pension, too because he served 35yrs.

DS1 is already thinking about his future, he’s done 7 years. He’s thinking of retrading, the army will pay for his degree and he won’t have a pay cut while he’s studying.

Look up your local armed forces careers office and make an appointment to chat to them. They don’t force you to join contrary to popular belief.

@ComeonJulia. wow, patronising much?

One thing I didn't expect but has impressed me a lot -- there is a lot of financial planning and encouragement to plan their financial future. Right from when they start earning, they get lots of advice about savings vehicles, pensions, special ISAs to help them buy a home, car finance, insurance products, etc. A big effort to make sure they don't leave military with no assets. DS has spent last 2 years planning how he will buy his first property.

Also the opportunities to quit are many. It's not like US military where getting out early is a dishonourable discharge. British military -- if you don't want to be there any more, they don't make it seem shameful & impossible to leave.

I work in a tri service environment and my husband is in the RAF. I've met idiots in each of the services and I've met amazing, inspiring people in each of the services.
My observations would be that the Army do not encourage independent thought to the same way that the RN and RAF do and, for all we say that challenge is encouraged, it's less welcome in the Army. The Navy are definitely away on deployment a lot and their tours tend to be longer than the RAF or Army ones.

I'd encourage him to start thinking about a trade rather than a service as a first point. Once he had an idea of what sort of thing he would like to do he can reach out, via the careers centre, and chat to people who do those roles.

I'm happy to answer any q's (or ask colleagues) if he has specifics he would like to ask

@brittleheadgirl

Am I the only one who would be utterly disappointed if my ds (or dd) wanted to join the army? Also look very closely at the link between mental health issues and homelessness after leaving the forces. Shocking statistics unfortunately.

This attitude really boils my blood btw.

DS1 has helped with the floods. He left home at a moments notice over Christmas, worked his arse off helping people and slept on leisure centre floors. Why would you be “utterly disappointed” about that?

He was deployed last year. The country he was in was hit by a hurricane. They weren’t there as a relief effort however they quickly adapted and became one.

He was sent to do Covid testing and to work at the vaccine centres, as were many other members of the armed forces. There’s so much more to their job than just going to war.

@brittleheadgirl

Am I the only one who would be utterly disappointed if my ds (or dd) wanted to join the army? Also look very closely at the link between mental health issues and homelessness after leaving the forces. Shocking statistics unfortunately.

I agree. As someone that has worked alongside ex army men and women in mental health, people and parents should very rightly be concerned. Young people entering into a world they haven't fully considered nor the consequences of is very dangerous. Particularly anyone with pre-existing MH, historical family/abuse/neglect, emotional issues, anxiety etc. Not to say that this should exclude these people, but this isnt considered enough on a humane level in my opinion.

Further unthinkable trauma on tours can exacerbate and bring to light the previous issues and their lives are taken over by both. I know some people flourish in the army but I also have seen so many accounts of men and women who have experienced terrible bullying, terrible experiences, who leave with very very little support, they cannot maintain relationships, can't sleep inside their own homes, struggle travelling on buses, struggle leaving their homes, sleeping, flashbacks. Some cannot integrate back into civilian life and struggle for the rest of their lives. I am not discounting positive experiences, they exist, but I defy anyone that says services are not completely overwhelmed with these accounts that are heart breaking.

The army shouldn't be a mindless, unconsidered option. It's not a brave or honourable act to offer your service without careful, very careful consideration and research, it's a really really foolish one.

Do ordinary lads really go to Sandhurst?

They certainly do - my bloke was one of them! They’re pretty keen on graduates these days, though. Students who join the UOTC get paid when they’re on exercise and are more or less guaranteed a place at Sandhurst/Cranwell/Dartmouth. It’s a good way to see if it’s the life for you.

I guess I've never seen him as very practical. I don't see him as an engineer or a tank driver, I definitely don't see him as a soldier on the field carrying a massive pack and rolling around in mud.
I always had the idea that somehow you would have a feeling that someone might be the army 'type' and I never in a million years had that feeling about him. He's too gentle to my mind, never liked rough and tumble, never liked sort of locker-room banter.
He's really good with people, really kind and caring to the older folk in our family, loves animals, cares passionately about nature and the future of our planet he loves a good moral debate, he's very rational and logical in his thinking, a bit too black and white sometimes maybe, not always great at compromise. So I just can't see him in the big army machine. I don't know what job he would do.

Thanks for all your stories and experiences, I'm starting from no knowledge whatsoever so it's all useful to me.

I would suggest cadets...either army/ccf or aircadets..my dc did ccf ...good n bad ...and then switched to air cadets which I liked more ....less man up than the ccf/army....he's now stopped but was really good for him....his aircadets were great in lockdown at trying to do stuff....

The army shouldn't be a mindless, unconsidered option

This worries me a bit. If you have some sort of military background I suppose you have more of an idea of the good and the bad. But if you look through the glossy website there is no bad, just lots of amazing opportunities.
I hope the recruitment process helps potential recruits to really consider the negatives along with the positives. If I could be sure he had really thought about the risks and decided to go ahead anyway then I would support him. But I worry that he will be seduced by the excitement of it all. (Obviously I'll support him anyway but I would suppo6him with more enthusiasm if I felt he had his eyes wide open)

It depends what you do in the military, some comments on this thread are really ignorant, but that's not a great surprise really, a lot of people don't have a clue beyond 'go to war'.

I was in the RN for 12 years as a Writer (basically HR and admin) and absolutely loved it. It was a lot of time away from home and a lot of crap, but also some amazing opportunities and qualifications that have enabled me to have a really well paid and enjoyable career now.

I would recommend the RAF though in honesty, something like this if he was interested would mean unlikely to go to war (and would be behind the wire no doubt if he did) and also bloody amazing experience and qualifications gained so could walk into a highly paid civilian job even after the minimum RoS:

www.raf.mod.uk/recruitment/roles/roles-finder/technical-and-engineering/cyberspace-communication-specialist

If he is keen on the army I would encourage him to think about the other services too, and on their websites there is lots of info about different trades; see if any appeal to him in particular. Also worth him having a look at past ops and current news, from assisting with Ebola to helping provide humanitarian aid after hurricanes- the array of what they do is impressive. Social media also tends to have recruit diaries etc to get an idea of that side of it, and even better if be can join cadets.

I would definitely encourage cadets, if he is leaning towards Army then Army cadets first but any of them will give him a taster of some elements of the services.

I am a senior volunteer in one of the cadet forces and have known a large number of young people join all the services as well as being part of a forces family.

My advice to young people is almost never to join at 16. In practise they are limited in what they can do in the first few years and I think it ultimately limits career progression, both because the can’t demonstrate they are able /ready to take on opportunities as they come up and also because they get babied in their unit and often seem to always end up stuck at the back doing shit jobs, far better to do A-levels first, and sometimes uni and join a little older. I also believe that those who join having had a little independence before hand tend to do better coming out the other end.

I would second PP advice to look at the career or trade first and service second as ultimately they need a job that they enjoy regardless of service.

I was in the RN for 12 years as a Writer (basically HR and admin) and absolutely loved it

(I'm on a long train journey this afternoon, I have lots of time to read and reply!)

Can I ask why you decided to do this kind of job in the RN rather than just in civilian life? It seems quite an odd choice to me. You're away from home for months at a time when you could do the same job at home with your family. Do you still feel like you're travelling and experiencing the world or could you just be in an office anywhere? Do you get better pay or training, do you have to pass the same fitness tests and basic training as soldiers?

Sorry, I don't mean to be ignorant, I genuinely don't know anything about the armed forces.

Also, ds keeps talking about joining The Military, is that even a phrase used in the UK? I've never heard anyone talk about it before, I've heard Armed Forces but never The Military. But he probably knows way more than me.

@Mum060708 there are lots and lots of admin style roles in all three forces. They are giant machines and they live and thrive on paperwork. My recommendation, other than to go to the recruitment offices, which I understand you saying is a big move just yet, is to have a sit down chat with him and ask about what he sees himself doing in the forces. How that fits with what he enjoys (nature, debate, the environment, caring for people) and how it might challenge it. Don't go in with a message to push, just ask questions. He might surprise you on the reasons he wants to join, or he might show a level of ignorance that could benefit from further research.
As you can see from all these posts there are benefits by the dozen, and negatives by the dozen, as with most jobs and careers. Don't forget those talking about mental health (which is a major issue, don't get me wrong!) don't mention the mental health problems found in doctors, nurses, solicitors, police and bankers etc etc. Its an essential thing to consider but it isn't unique to the forces.

You need to rememeber that a lot of Servicemen aend up in the Army because they're already from deprived backgrounds with some of the issues that lead to homelessness.

DH joined the marines at 18 in 4 years he can retire on full pension. Different recruitment process to the army.

One of the best reasons for joining the armed forces is the pension @Mum060708. It’s non contributory and pretty generous. You won’t find that anywhere else.

@Blossomtoes

One of the best reasons for joining the armed forces is the pension *@Mum060708*. It’s non contributory and pretty generous. You won’t find that anywhere else.

Its not as good as it used to be

It’s still far better than you’d find anywhere else. It’s the only non contributory scheme in existence as far as I know.

@Mum060708

I was in the RN for 12 years as a Writer (basically HR and admin) and absolutely loved it

(I'm on a long train journey this afternoon, I have lots of time to read and reply!)

Can I ask why you decided to do this kind of job in the RN rather than just in civilian life? It seems quite an odd choice to me. You're away from home for months at a time when you could do the same job at home with your family. Do you still feel like you're travelling and experiencing the world or could you just be in an office anywhere? Do you get better pay or training, do you have to pass the same fitness tests and basic training as soldiers?

Sorry, I don't mean to be ignorant, I genuinely don't know anything about the armed forces.

Also, ds keeps talking about joining The Military, is that even a phrase used in the UK? I've never heard anyone talk about it before, I've heard Armed Forces but never The Military. But he probably knows way more than me.

I didn't really know what I wanted to do when I left school, I had a levels but wasn't fussed on university at the time. I got job with the mod as an E1 (one of the lowest grades) doing admin and really enjoyed it, but working with ex service personnel and being on a tri service base I looked into joining up. My decision making process was pretty much: I didn't want to join the army, the RAF had longer wait times at the time, and i didn't fancy working shifts at sea- also seemed like a variety of different postings compared to some other trades in the RN (kind of life infantry in the army, there are some jobs in the navy that are important but very limited in scope, such as seamen specialist).

After passing out into the fleet following basic and phase 2 training I was posted shoreside to start with, and pretty much worked regular office hours (aside from when on duty), if I had a family at that point would have been home by 5pm every evening so a good balance. This was different at sea, but personally I enjoyed it, not everyone gets to experience 6 months at sea squished into a triple bunk on a warship; admittedly its not for everyone, but travelled a good chunk of the world. Also managed to save loads of money which was good in terms of a house deposit when I left. Travelled around on a sports team as well, did some adventurous training and had qualifications fully paid for. Worked in places I wouldn't have got to otherwise, and met some incredible people.

I suppose technically I could have done similar jobs in an office elsewhere for another organisation, but for me it was the 'extra' opportunities that appealed, and meeting so many people from across the country and from around the world was an opportunity I'd have found it hard to get otherwise.

It really isn't for everyone, and some parts are boring, frustrating and it is a big commitment as things change last minute, but by no means does anyone have to stay in forever.

To add, fitness levels were the same regardless of trade but in honesty, once passed out it was pretty much just the annual fitness test and then weekly phys- which I chose sports so it wasn't tested. We did go on exercise which was weighted marches etc but not too bad; all services have their own standards and it varies depending on age and sex. Training was pretty savage but got through it okay, it's worth it.

I thought pay was good to be honest, free or heavily subsided accommodation, food isn't as good now but it's still cheaper, and you get additional pay for being away from home, travelling back home etc. I think the pay went up tonnes quicker than it would have if I'd have not joined for sure.