Page 30 | Oh Prince Andrew is getting SUED by Virginia Robert's

Wheretobuy · 13/08/2021 01:02

the photo of her leaving the party does not imply a young woman who has been raped.

^
Minimising rape spectacularly. I know people who were abused and you would never know looking at them, real life or pictures, with or without their abusers.
You are an apologist through and through.

SamiReed1 · 13/08/2021 01:09

@Pixxie7

all KidneyBeans@ they didn’t comment either way just said that nobody is above the law, which I applaud. You really are quite aggressive about this, it was my opinion about a photo that doesn’t mean that I don’t think he is guilty.

Suggesting a girl doesn't look like she was abused or raped based on a photo is deeply, DEEPLY OFFENSIVE to anyone with any sense of reason, compassion and human decency. It was an absolutely disgraceful thing to say, and if you still don't understand that, and you are not ashamed of yourself, there is no hope for you. Anyone else would be too ashamed to show their face (nickname) on here after that abhorrent, disgusting and offensive thing you said. That you think it was ok to say says a lot about your character and how you were raised.

SamiReed1 · 13/08/2021 01:10

@Pixxie7

I haven’t at any stage demeaned her character or anyone else I have just tried to look at the bigger picture neither of us know the truth and possibly never will. Which is in direct contrast to you who has PA hung drawn and quartered. You have verbally attack any poster who doesn’t agree with you.

Yes, you HAVE demeaned her character and demeaned victims on this thread and as a whole. And we do know the truth. She was raped and PA raped her.

SamiReed1 · 13/08/2021 01:15

@Pixxie7

KidneyBeans@ firstly it wasn’t the one of her leaving the party, apart from that you are going to twist what ever anyone says if they don’t agree with you so there is no point in engaging any further you have your opinion I have. Finally to say anybody thinks either rape or trafficking of anyone is fine is ridiculous.

You clearly think it's fine because you are casting doubt on a victim of rape and trafficking. That is exactly what you are doing. If you weren't fine with rape and trafficking you would #Believe Her . So own it.

SamiReed1 · 13/08/2021 01:19

@Plumtree391

I have read your posts and don't think you have said anything untoward, Pixxie7. You are trying to be objective which I think is good when we don't yet know all the facts.

She clearly has, many of her posts have been deleted, even the ones still there, she has said some absolutely DISGUSTING things, things that go way beyond merely being 'objective'. If you nail your colours to her mast you show what type of person you are as well. Birds of a feather....

SamiReed1 · 13/08/2021 01:20

@Pixxie7

Plumtree391@ thank you I was beginning to doubt myself to be honest.

Of course you will be sated by one fellow victim-blamer, instead of the many people calling you out. Quite lop-sided that.

SamiReed1 · 13/08/2021 01:21

@Plumtree391

I have read your posts and don't think you have said anything untoward, Pixxie7. You are trying to be objective which I think is good when we don't yet know all the facts.

Oh, and there is no being 'objective' when it comes rape and sex trafficking.

Plumtree391 · 13/08/2021 01:25

Since when have I been a 'victim blamer'? Never, never, never, that is an outrageous thing to say.

SamiReed1 · 13/08/2021 02:18

@Plumtree391 I have gone right through the thread and searched for your name.
You said "I agree" in response to Pixxie7 's post (who you said didn't post anything untoward ) which said: We all know that some women would enjoy the highlife and all the benefits that come with it.whether or not it was actual rape remains to be proved.

If that's not CLASSIC VICTIM-BLAMING, I don't know what is!

Your second post on the thread was deleted.

You then said in your post of Tue 10-Aug-21 21:04:25 She said she wanted a photograph of her with a prince to show her family, it was taken on her little Kodak.

Not true. "Ms Maxwell asked Epstein to take a picture to show her family, and she then carried out her instructions to entertain the Prince."

In you post of Thu 12-Aug-21 05:46:48 you said:
Virginia Giuffre was not held against her will.

CLEARLY very untrue, and victim-blaming. She definitely was held against her will.

KidneyBeans Thu 12-Aug-21 10:01:00 Asked you to tell them what you thought of Roussette's link. Despite replying to others, you never replied to that.

And KidneyBeans Thu 12-Aug-21 18:37:01
"I don't think you are a 'rape apolgist'; nobody knows the truth about this issue except those involved

Of course you don't @Plumtree391
You also agreed with:

That doesn't mean she couldn't have been forced to have sex with Andrew or anyone else, but it does strongly suggest that she wanted to be where she was, with the people she was with, and wasn't being held against her will.

You also didn't answer any of my questions when I pointed out the faulty logic that post generated

Interesting how none of the 'two-sides' brigade have answered any questions, provided and sources or demonstrated any level of reasoned or informed discussion on this issue. It's just been a constant stream of gold-digging accusations and insinuations about VRG's character. Not a very robust basis on which to base your opinion"

All of this, is a clear pattern of you victim-blaming.

Pixxie7 · 13/08/2021 03:26

Plumtree391@ once again taken out of context, so you are saying that there are no women who willingly go out with rich men for money or high class escorts. That is all I said, not that VR was one of them.

SamiReed1 · 13/08/2021 03:59

@Pixxie7

Plumtree391@ once again taken out of context, so you are saying that there are no women who willingly go out with rich men for money or high class escorts. That is all I said, not that VR was one of them.

This is a thread about a woman who was raped and trafficked. There was NO NEED to make that disgraceful comment, it was out of place in this thread. Once again, you simply don't get it. Nothing you said was 'taken out of context'. It simply should not have been said, in the first place!

Roussette · 13/08/2021 06:54

I haven’t at any stage demeaned her character or anyone else I have just tried to look at the bigger picture neither of us know the truth and possibly never will. Which is in direct contrast to you who has PA hung drawn and quartered

PA has not been hung drawn and quartered. He's quite comfortably at 100 roomed Balmoral estate with his ex wife as I type. He will have the best legal team probably in the land, if not the world, and being realistic, I don't think anything is going to change for him. Apart from not being able to play golf in the US. Or the faint hope he had of being a more public member of the RF and wearing uniforms and medals on the balcony.

GOOD.

However, on this discussion forum, we can delve into and talk of his disgusting behaviour (not out of character, read his Wiki page) and unlike you, I am not a defender of him for very many reasons. If he was not a member of the RF, I would be more ambivalent but the fact they hold themselves up to the highest standards, are funded by us, we are spoon fed a diet of them daily... I have a right to strongly criticise what he has done. To be frank... even if he didn't sleep with VG, I would feel the same. He carried on a friendship with a sex trafficker and paedophile and we're meant to defend him?

Even after he knew of Epstein's first conviction in 2006, he invited the man to Beatrice's 18th birthday party at Windsor Castle. FFS... we're meant to think this is OK?

So you think this is 'hung drawn and quartered'. No. This man, because of his privileged position, will escape much of what a member of the public would, but I can show revulsion for his behaviour over decades if I want. And I will.

AnnunciataZ · 13/08/2021 07:05

Hung, drawn and quartered?? Andrew? Oh give over, I've seen worse from the press and Mumsnet every time Harry or Meghan sneeze!

The victim-blaming comments on this thread have been disgusting.

Maireas · 13/08/2021 07:05

women who willingly go out with rich men for money
What on earth has that to do with this case? Women get blamed for their own exploitation?
As for defending Andrew - have a look at that man, his privilege, his wealth, his lifestyle, his entitlement, his friendship with Epstein, his interview with Emily Maitlis. Defend him if you want to, I'm less inclined.
This is not a man you should feel sorry for on an internet discussion forum in my opinion. Save it for the victims in this whole sordid business.

LolaSmiles · 13/08/2021 07:18

Isn't it interesting that by page 30 we're seeing posters denying victim blaming and minimising when there's a whole thread of it and posts have been deleted for it.

I'm not victim blaming. You're all horrible... Oh there's posts where I've suggested that some women enjoy the high life that goes with being groomed for sex, oh and there's also posts doubting whether it's rape, and posts that suggest a victim of abuse is trying to milk money from the rich people, and posts saying she wasn't held against her will... definitely not minimising or trying to discredit women though. I'm just pointing out that nobody knows the truth.

once again taken out of context, so you are saying that there are no women who willingly go out with rich men for money or high class escorts?That is all I said, not that VR was one of them

You have a pattern of victim blaming on this thread, but for one second let's pretend you aren't clutching at straws to discredit VR:

Why on earth would anyone bring up adult women working in escorting and enjoying the 'high life' of working in elite circles as a way to make a point on a thread discussing a CHILD being GROOMED for sex and flown around the world so that older, wealthy, and powerful men can have sex with minors?
If there's no minimising and no attempts to discredit a victim, and no victim blaming and no intention of suggesting VR and Epstein's victims were enjoying a life of luxury, please can you explain what mentioning adult escorting and adult women dating wealthy men adds to this discussion?

Maireas · 13/08/2021 07:25

Oh, and by the way, those who imagine there are "high class" escorts who live a life of "luxury" should read about them. The money they make still goes to pimps and they're as exploited, raped and drugged up as any woman on the streets, it's just a different scenario.
Don't attach glamour to it. Or claim it's an exciting lifestyle choice.

LolaSmiles · 13/08/2021 07:40

I agree Maireas. I hope I didn't sound like I was suggesting escorts really do have a luxury life.

I'm hoping that by taking at face value PP's claims that they were not in any way victim blaming or minimising by bringing up to escorts loving the high life and adult women dating wealthy men, they might come back and explain to us what their comments about adults in adult relationships possibly has to do with the grooming of children for sexual abuse.

I can't see why it's relevant unless the intention is to group child abuse victims in with adult women dating wealthy men.

ProfessorSlocombe · 13/08/2021 07:44

[quote Od130990]@KidneyBeans
What are you not understanding?
My point is Virginia has to prove in court that Prince Andrew KNEW SHE WAS TRAFFICKED! It's a civil case Burden of proof! I don't make the rules.
[/quote]
Putting aside the face this is a civil action (In another country) are you advocating that a rapists ignorance of the age of their victim should be a defence in law ?

KidneyBeans · 13/08/2021 08:27

@Plumtree391

Since when have I been a 'victim blamer'? Never, never, never, that is an outrageous thing to say.

Your victim blaming has been pointed out multiple times. You know this.

How about when you agreed that
she wanted to be where she was, with the people she was with, and wasn't being held against her will.
You've also repeatedly chipped in to support victim blaming comments by posters like @Pixxie7 and @StapMe

@CarolineMumsnet it's very clear that despite your earlier posts there are a few persistent posters on this thread who give zero shits about victims of sexual assault and MN's clear stance on believing victims of trafficking and assault.

It's also clear that despite your suggestions that if they could not get on board with supporting victims of assault that MN perhaps wasn't the place for them. Yet they're still here and still spewing their victim-blaming bile. Is @MNHQ planning to take any action against such hateful posting?

KidneyBeans · 13/08/2021 08:30

@Pixxie7

Plumtree391@ once again taken out of context, so you are saying that there are no women who willingly go out with rich men for money or high class escorts. That is all I said, not that VR was one of them.

Then why are you discussing random unrelated activities on this thread? What's your point if not to cast aspersions that the conniving 17 year old was setting up the poor ickle multi millionaires ?

Maireas · 13/08/2021 08:32

@LolaSmiles

I agree Maireas. I hope I didn't sound like I was suggesting escorts really do have a luxury life.

I'm hoping that by taking at face value PP's claims that they were not in any way victim blaming or minimising by bringing up to escorts loving the high life and adult women dating wealthy men, they might come back and explain to us what their comments about adults in adult relationships possibly has to do with the grooming of children for sexual abuse.

I can't see why it's relevant unless the intention is to group child abuse victims in with adult women dating wealthy men.

Not at all!! No criticism of your points. It was in response to those that think if a girl or woman is in a private jet or a luxury house it must be ok!! No, we're absolutely on the same page. 👍

Sloth66 · 13/08/2021 09:24

I hope she succeeds in her court case, though what will subsequently happen is most likely nothing.
This obscenely privileged, by all accounts , deeply unpleasant man, will likely carry on, though confined more to the numerous castles, stately homes and palaces, we taxpayers maintain him and his numerous family members in.

One of the purposes of the RF is supposedly to represent the country home and abroad. This man has denigrated us abroad.
Hopefully more people might now
Think about moving to a Republic, where we can actually have a say in who represents us.

Roussette · 13/08/2021 09:34

So agree with this Sloth66.

I am no royalist but the damage this has done and will continue to do to us as a country is immeasurable. H&M pale into insignificance compared to this.

Which is why he/they have to address it. They have 3 weeks by law apparently.

Livingtothefull · 13/08/2021 09:55

@Sloth66

I hope she succeeds in her court case, though what will subsequently happen is most likely nothing. This obscenely privileged, by all accounts , deeply unpleasant man, will likely carry on, though confined more to the numerous castles, stately homes and palaces, we taxpayers maintain him and his numerous family members in.

One of the purposes of the RF is supposedly to represent the country home and abroad. This man has denigrated us abroad.
Hopefully more people might now
Think about moving to a Republic, where we can actually have a say in who represents us.

Agree 100%. Tbh I am just disgusted with the RF's very public support of him; there he is holed up safely in Balmoral with his family, no public statements, 'no comment'. And this is after the previous Palace statement that there was no wrongdoing (how would they know? Because PA told them?).

They are obviously used to doing just what they like and do not feel they are accountable to us. Even if PA is innocent of the offences (and I'm afraid I have grave doubts about that), at the very least he invited JE to his daughter's birthday party, AFTER he had been accused of sexual offences against minors. A party at Windsor Castle. An official royal residence, that we pay for.

Most of us who have teenage daughters would be disgusted and would distance themselves from a friend who was accused of something as heinous - at least, would keep him well away from our own DC. But not PA. I do think that he probably saw the teenage victims as some kind of lower species, not on a par with his own daughters; as 'staff'.

AnnunciataZ · 13/08/2021 10:15

The RF's support of him is appalling. Sophie Wessex does a lot of work with charities working with women who've been the victims of sexual violence and Camilla has spoken out against domestic abuse. I don't know how they can put up with being at Balmoral with him each year. I know they probably do it for the Queen but still, it doesn't quite square with me.