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Oh Prince Andrew is getting SUED by Virginia Robert's

999 replies

LaurieFairyCake · 09/08/2021 23:54

That will be interesting

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youvegottenminuteslynn · 12/08/2021 17:19

@StapMe

Do you not understand what people are saying?

Some people may lie to the police about being raped. To do so is so vanishingly rare that you're able to name some specific examples.

You're not making the point you think you are.

You are so intent on discrediting victims that I can't believe you're a woman as surely you must know other women and girls who have shared their pain with you during your lifetime? And therefore know how offensively unempathetic your default view is?

If innocent until proven guilty is your absolute default, even when you aren't in a court of law, then why assume a woman is guilty of lying rather than innocent of doing so?

Roussette · 12/08/2021 17:22

Jemma Beale falsely accused several men of rape. She was jailed for 10 years in 2017

Does this negate all the others, the thousands, who have been raped and have met wall after wall in getting justice?

What does one case have to do with this? Is your default position that you believe no one?

Maireas · 12/08/2021 17:23

@StapMe

Which is not to say Virginia isn't telling the truth. But Jemma lied for sure. One poor bloke got 7 years.
The fact that you can name her and remember the case shows you how rare it is. What about all the girls and women who never get justice against male perpetrators? You couldn't name them, it would take too long, but you can remember the case when the victim is a man.
Roussette · 12/08/2021 17:24

It's amazing that you say 'poor bloke' but I've yet to see 'poor girl'.
Shocking

Maireas · 12/08/2021 17:25

Absolutely, Roussette. Each further point shocks me more.

SamiReed1 · 12/08/2021 17:25

@StapMe

No, I haven't come across that graph before. No surprise there, since I have been labelled a rape apologist. Sadly, it is true that too few perpetrators of crime are successfully prosecuted. But our justice system relies on the concept of innocent until proven guilty.
Yes, the justice system! Mumsnet is not a justice system. People in their homes are not a justice system. People talking on the street or supermarket about this case are not a justice system. The 'innocent until proven guilty' is irrelevant in real life.
StapMe · 12/08/2021 17:26

I am not intent upon discrediting victims - nor anyone else for that matter. I'm not assuming Virginia is lying. But I'm not assuming she's telling the truth either. I simply don't know. Hopefully the court case will be able to sort it all out. No-one has answered my previous question - will what Andrew said in his interview be allowed in evidence?

SamiReed1 · 12/08/2021 17:27

@StapMe

Jemma Beale falsely accused several men of rape. She was jailed for 10 years in 2017.
So because of ONE person, you will not believe 99 other cases?

How about take the view that since it is so incredibly rare for anyone to lie about something like this, that you will automatically believe the woman until proven otherwise?

SamiReed1 · 12/08/2021 17:29

@StapMe

I am not intent upon discrediting victims - nor anyone else for that matter. I'm not assuming Virginia is lying. But I'm not assuming she's telling the truth either. I simply don't know. Hopefully the court case will be able to sort it all out. No-one has answered my previous question - will what Andrew said in his interview be allowed in evidence?
You should always, always assume a victim is telling the truth.

That is what you simply don't get. The default position of normal people is to BELIEVE the woman (or child).

StapMe · 12/08/2021 17:31

Sami - if innocent until proven guilty is not relevant in real life, how do we deal with those accused of crime? Bang 'em all up anyway without looking into what they're supposed to have done? Let them go Scot free? Or shall we go back to trial by endurance?

CarpeVitam · 12/08/2021 17:32

.

knittingaddict · 12/08/2021 17:33

@StapMe

I am not intent upon discrediting victims - nor anyone else for that matter. I'm not assuming Virginia is lying. But I'm not assuming she's telling the truth either. I simply don't know. Hopefully the court case will be able to sort it all out. No-one has answered my previous question - will what Andrew said in his interview be allowed in evidence?
How the hell do we know. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I live in the US.
SamiReed1 · 12/08/2021 17:33

@StapMe

Sami - if innocent until proven guilty is not relevant in real life, how do we deal with those accused of crime? Bang 'em all up anyway without looking into what they're supposed to have done? Let them go Scot free? Or shall we go back to trial by endurance?
You are not getting it! Innocent until proven guilty, as I have said repeatedly and as others have also said, is purely a COURT concept. It doesn't exist in day to day life. In day to day life, a victim is believed automatically.
SamiReed1 · 12/08/2021 17:35

@CarpeVitam

.
@CarpeVitam Check out Watch This Thread. No need to waste posts on a 1000 post limit thread with a (.) . That's what Watch This Thread function is for.
Roussette · 12/08/2021 17:37

Now you're being utterly ridiculous

KidneyBeans · 12/08/2021 17:37

@StapMe

SamiReed1 - so Andrew definitely is a rapist now, without the benefit of a trial? Are you actually allowed to write that without consequences, isn't that libel? I go back to what I said at first - he says he didn't, she says he did. So one of them is lying. How, in a court of law, can it be proved which one?
@StapMe I have answered this question at least twice already on this thread. I suggest if you cannot be bothered to at least read the very informative posts already provided, then your continued posting is deliberate and wilful ignorance.
youvegottenminuteslynn · 12/08/2021 17:38

@StapMe

Sami - if innocent until proven guilty is not relevant in real life, how do we deal with those accused of crime? Bang 'em all up anyway without looking into what they're supposed to have done? Let them go Scot free? Or shall we go back to trial by endurance?
Do you not see the difference between being on a jury and being on Mumsnet?

On Mumsnet, or in everyday life, or on another forum it's ok (and normal) to say on balance it seems far more likely that this woman was trafficked and abused as a child than not.

Even if you think you'd be unable to prove that beyond reasonable doubt in court and return a guilty verdict.

You're so worryingly intent on making a level playing field out of false equivalence. A vulnerable young woman being taken to countries as a minor to 'massage' rich, powerful men says she was sexually assaulted by those men. Those men who wanted a massage off a young woman. On balance, you think it unlikely she was trafficked and abused? You think it equally likely those men really did 'just' get a massage? Or that they didn't meet her at all despite photographic evidence they did? Really?! Jesus wept.

As for your 'what about the men' comments, shame on you bringing up a vanishingly rare case of a woman meeting the threshold for lying about a rape as a reason not to believe victims.

Your posts on this thread have been as embarrassing as they have shocking.

I wonder if you read those links people shared upthread? If so, perhaps share your thoughts on them and people won't accuse you of being on a mission to discredit women. Because you'd have shown an actual interest in listening and learning about trafficking and child sexual abuse, rather than fixating on innocent until proven guilty when you're not in a courtroom.

knittingaddict · 12/08/2021 17:39

@StapMe

Sami - if innocent until proven guilty is not relevant in real life, how do we deal with those accused of crime? Bang 'em all up anyway without looking into what they're supposed to have done? Let them go Scot free? Or shall we go back to trial by endurance?
Well obviously the justice system deals with them, in real life. However it is acknowledged by nearly everyone involved that victims of rape and sexual assault do not get the justice they deserve. Probably due to lack of money and resources because too many women and children get raped for the system to cope. What does that tell you?

As a member of the public I don't have to assume innocent before proven guilty and I can make up my own mind and declare it on this forum.

CarpeVitam · 12/08/2021 17:39

@SamiReed1 🙄

DuncinToffee · 12/08/2021 17:40

No-one has answered my previous question - will what Andrew said in his interview be allowed in evidence?

No idea but did he actually say anything about this case? The Pizza Express was in Woking not New York.

StapMe · 12/08/2021 17:41

But this one IS going to court. The court will decide who is telling the truth based upon the evidence presented to it.

PearlFriday · 12/08/2021 17:41

@AlternativePerspective

Publicity stunt, IMO.

She files a suit against him conveniently a couple of days before she’s run out of time, he settles out of court, she takes the money and walks away saying that Andrew essentially admitted guilt through a court settlement.

There’s no way this is going to end up in court and there’s no way she’s going to want it to. Because the evidence is circumstantial, it’s going to be impossible to prove and she’s only going to gain humilliation from it when she loses.

There is no doubt that Andrew is a sleaze, but I have no doubt that this is all about money for her.

What would she need to do to demonstrate that its not about money??
knittingaddict · 12/08/2021 17:43

Honestly, I would love to see PA tying himself in knots trying to prove that he didn't do this and his whereabouts on the dates in question. I would pay good money to see that.

SamiReed1 · 12/08/2021 17:44

@StapMe

But this one IS going to court. The court will decide who is telling the truth based upon the evidence presented to it.
Yes, and? What does that have to do with us discussing it on here?
knittingaddict · 12/08/2021 17:45

@StapMe

But this one IS going to court. The court will decide who is telling the truth based upon the evidence presented to it.
Again, it may or may not. It's a civil case, not a criminal one.

By the way, the MET are looking into the case again, if you care to read my link. Maybe there will be a case here after all.