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Original poster

Oh Prince Andrew is getting SUED by Virginia Robert's

999 replies

LaurieFairyCake · 09/08/2021 23:54

That will be interesting

OP posts:
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5
CallmeHendricks · 11/08/2021 23:30

"It was not an one-night stand, it happened more than once."

I know that. I was more talking about casual/anonymous sex. It's not my area of expertise, but it is for plenty of people.

DuncinToffee · 11/08/2021 23:33

Roussette, I found this on Virginia Giuffre's wiki page

Civil Cases
Virginia Giuffre v. Ghislaine Maxwell (2015)
As a result of Giuffre's allegations and Maxwell's comments about them, Giuffre sued Maxwell for defamation in federal court in New York in September 2015.[34] After much legal confrontation, the case was settled under seal in June 2017 with Maxwell reportedly paying Giuffre "millions".[34][73

Roussette · 11/08/2021 23:36

Thank you. I was unaware of that.
Good for her Smile

youvegottenminuteslynn · 11/08/2021 23:50

@StapMe

And she doesn't look too unhappy in that photo with Prince Andrew.

Fucking hell. You do realise there are thousands of abused kids in this country alone right now who will have been sexually abused by for example a family member and still have a picture taken with that family member this year in which they 'don't look too unhappy' or are smiling / laughing?

How fucking offensive you think you can tell if someone has been raped by a photo of them.

You know who is scary and intimidating and you'd want to placate by acting as if things are ok in front of a camera? Someone who raped you.

Catch yourself on, you should be ashamed of yourself.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 11/08/2021 23:51

You only have to look at some of the reality tv shows to see that youngsters are not all innocents.

Imagine essentially comparing Love Island with Epstein's island. Absolutely embarrassing.

mathanxiety · 12/08/2021 00:13

You only have to look at some of the reality tv shows to see that youngsters are not all innocents.

Do you not see those ghastly shows as incredibly exploitative, and something many of those participating will deeply regret in years to come?

Pixxie7 · 12/08/2021 00:58

You only need to look at Wikipedia to find out. Nobody is comparing love island with Epstein. This has been taken out of context.

FrenchCovidInfo · 12/08/2021 01:17

PA's interview tactic of 'I don't recall' suggests he's very worried about camera evidence emerging

I rewatched the interview last night. His choice of words in response to direct questions throughout the whole cringe-fest were seemingly chosen to give some shifting space when the inevitable (this) happened.

Old, I know, but it's still astonishing that he gave that interview.

PurpleOkapi · 12/08/2021 02:58

This reply has been deleted

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Pixxie7 · 12/08/2021 04:12

PurpleOkapi@ totally agree, very well put.

Plumtree391 · 12/08/2021 05:46

@PurpleOkapi

Until fairly recently, doing meet-and-greets with complete strangers - most of them random people - was a huge part of Andrew's full-time job. Of course he doesn't remember most of them, and I doubt there's any person on this earth he can say with certainty that he's never met.

I'm sure most women here, myself included, wouldn't have ever wanted to have sex with Andrew. I'm also fairly certain that when he was younger, there was never any shortage of attractive women throwing themselves at him because he was a prince. That's true of all celebrities. I don't think it's reasonable to say that any time an attractive young woman seemingly-voluntarily has sex with a rich-and-famous-but-not-very-attractive older man, the older man should just assume she's being forced by some third party. Women doing this voluntarily is just too common for that to be a reasonable assumption.

Being trafficked is a separate issue from being underage. It's still not obvious to me why a 17-year-old American being held against her will in an English-speaking country couldn't figure out some way of asking for help. Even on a private jet, they'd all still have to go through some kind of immigration and customs controls, which would involve interacting with uniformed government agents on both ends of the trip. That doesn't mean she couldn't have been forced to have sex with Andrew or anyone else, but it does strongly suggest that she wanted to be where she was, with the people she was with, and wasn't being held against her will. Unquestioningly repeating "Trafficking! Trafficking!" as an answer to every question raised by the circumstances isn't doing anyone any favors here.

That's a thoughtul post, PurpleOkapi and I agree with you. Virginia Giuffre was not held against her will. She was hired by Ghislane Maxwell for 'jobs', for which she was paid. When she got there some of the jobs were more than she had bargained for and she was definitely pushed into a corner, which was dreadful of course.

I'm not minimising Epstein and Maxwell's crimes but we must stick to the facts.

SerendipityJane · 12/08/2021 07:49

Being trafficked is a separate issue from being underage. It's still not obvious to me why a 17-year-old American being held against her will in an English-speaking country couldn't figure out some way of asking for help. Even on a private jet, they'd all still have to go through some kind of immigration and customs controls, which would involve interacting with uniformed government agents on both ends of the trip. That doesn't mean she couldn't have been forced to have sex with Andrew or anyone else, but it does strongly suggest that she wanted to be where she was, with the people she was with, and wasn't being held against her will. Unquestioningly repeating "Trafficking! Trafficking!" as an answer to every question raised by the circumstances isn't doing anyone any favors here.

That really is a lot of words to blame the victim with, isn't it ?

The reason it's called "trafficking" is because that - by the NY and US legal definition - is what it is. No one here is trying to rewrite the OED entry.

StapMe · 12/08/2021 07:52

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Roussette · 12/08/2021 07:57

So are people saying she could've run away, and she wanted to be there?
Even on a private jet, they'd all still have to go through some kind of immigration and customs controls, which would involve interacting with uniformed government agents on both ends of the trip

I find this shocking. One of the girls tried to escape, she didn't have her passport, she was spotted on surveillance cameras and brought back, she had no means of leaving the island, and who was expected to have sex three times a day.

I think you are forgetting how vulnerable some of these girls were, how young, how financially poor. Ghislaine toured round trailer parks offering them training as a beautician, offering them money, college fees etc. They were out of their depth, they had no idea what they were getting into.

There wouldn't be trafficking if it was as easy as 'tell an official'. What about people trafficked over here, UK citizens, living in grotesque caravans or overcrowded flats, fruit pickers, girls in nail bars, teenagers groomed by gangs to shoplift, prostitution etc.... why don't they just tell someone? How is this any different?

These are vulnerable girls. Some as young as 14. Yet, I just get the feeling, correct me if I'm wrong, that some on here think they knew what they were doing, they were happy doing it, they could have left if they wanted, victim blaming at it's best...
They were coerced, exploited, there were brutal threats, there's plenty out there to read. And it goes towards explaining why some of these young girls couldn't just walk away, like you suggest.

Roussette · 12/08/2021 07:59

She was hired by Ghislane Maxwell for 'jobs', for which she was paid. When she got there some of the jobs were more than she had bargained for and she was definitely pushed into a corner, which was dreadful of course

Yep, having sex with men three times your age was probably more than she bargained for.

LolaSmiles · 12/08/2021 07:59

OhGiveUp
No yours wasn't deleted, but the poster who replied to you and had your name in their reply has. Pixxie7 has been minimising and victim blaming throughout this thread.

Maireas · 12/08/2021 08:09

So, @PurpleOkapi and @Plumtree391
she wanted to be where she was
she wasn't held against her will
why didn't she try to escape
Perhaps she thought she had nowhere to go and that no-one would believe her.
From what you post, she's right.

Roussette · 12/08/2021 08:15

Down thread I said that I thought Virginia was more worldly wise than she lets on, and that she knew what she was getting into. And was shot down in flames. If only I'd been as eloquent as PurpleOkapi. What I meant was, well, the same as PurpleOkapi really. I also said that she didn't look too unhappy in that photo, and was similarly shot down

Horrible. Quite right you were shot down. And I'll shoot this that you've said down.
She was 17 FFS. Are all 17 year olds totally mature and know what they're getting in to? And smiling in a photo means she is happy to be in the situation she is in?
Read this one of Epstein's coerced girls. She was 26 at the time, threatened and abused.
All her fault of course Hmm

SpindleWhorl · 12/08/2021 08:16

It's like the Jimmy Savile apologists all over again. 'Why didn't they say anything at the time?'

Probably because if and when they tried, they ran into people like you.

Roussette · 12/08/2021 08:19

Probably because if and when they tried, they ran into people like you

Yep. Disbelievers.
Maybe these people think they knew they'd get a payout 20 years later so stuck it out

Maireas · 12/08/2021 08:21

It's funny how teenage girls in vulnerable situations are always "knowing" and "up for it" and "look happy", isn't it?
I suggest some people on here need to read accounts of grooming gangs and trafficked women in order to inform themselves about what really happens.

lotsofdogshere · 12/08/2021 08:22

@Roussette

So are people saying she could've run away, and she wanted to be there? Even on a private jet, they'd all still have to go through some kind of immigration and customs controls, which would involve interacting with uniformed government agents on both ends of the trip

I find this shocking. One of the girls tried to escape, she didn't have her passport, she was spotted on surveillance cameras and brought back, she had no means of leaving the island, and who was expected to have sex three times a day.

I think you are forgetting how vulnerable some of these girls were, how young, how financially poor. Ghislaine toured round trailer parks offering them training as a beautician, offering them money, college fees etc. They were out of their depth, they had no idea what they were getting into.

There wouldn't be trafficking if it was as easy as 'tell an official'. What about people trafficked over here, UK citizens, living in grotesque caravans or overcrowded flats, fruit pickers, girls in nail bars, teenagers groomed by gangs to shoplift, prostitution etc.... why don't they just tell someone? How is this any different?

These are vulnerable girls. Some as young as 14. Yet, I just get the feeling, correct me if I'm wrong, that some on here think they knew what they were doing, they were happy doing it, they could have left if they wanted, victim blaming at it's best...
They were coerced, exploited, there were brutal threats, there's plenty out there to read. And it goes towards explaining why some of these young girls couldn't just walk away, like you suggest.

Many of the victim blaming comments here are similar to those made about the girls in Rochdale, Oxford and other towns or cities who were sexually exploited. It took years of complaints from parents, youth/health/education/social workers etc before the girls began to be seen as sexually exploited children rather than teenagers making dangerous life choices The young women exploited by Epstein and Maxwell weren’t selected at age 18, more like 13, 14 or younger. Like the Rochdale girls, they were vulnerable in various ways. That’s why they were selected and groomed
knittingaddict · 12/08/2021 08:25

Sone of the posts on here are disgusting and I genuinely can't believe what I'm reading. Have none of you ever heard of power imbalance and it's place in the sexual abuse of young, poor and vulnerable people? There are lots of articles out there and I strongly suggest you read some of them before you embarrass yourselves further.

Roussette · 12/08/2021 08:25

@lotsofdogshere
Spot on.
I find it sad, really sad, that posters on here can write things like she knew what she was doing, she's smiling in that photo, she could've escaped.
I remember being that age, I got myself in a mess, I can imagine being in that situation

Maireas · 12/08/2021 08:29

People on here who don't believe that women are groomed, trafficked and raped should really start to inform themselves.
Read about Epstein and Maxwell. Seriously.

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